# What the Smith and Jones around the world (most common names)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 3, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338 "2018-06-03T00:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/41 "2018-06-04T19:51:41Z")
Wow, I did not think that there would be distinctly French Canadian names among those. Especially Gauthier, but Wikipedia indeed lists mostly Canadians. > [@Jasmine](#): > > A name I constantly see is “Nguyen”, so I looked it up and found this via Google: The way I understand it, the royal family gave the name as a sign of prestige. So many people also changed their name to Nguyen to bandwagon onto more famous Nguyens. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/42 "2018-06-04T20:03:24Z")
The Cayman Islands did not have an indigenous population when discovered by Columbus in May 1503. It was later permanently settled by a very small group, only 6 families, IIRC. And those very earliest settlers gave rise to the most common Caymanian family names, particularly Ebanks, Bodden, and McLaughlin. ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/43 "2018-06-04T21:10:08Z")
We once had a Brazilian exchange student and I remember him saying half the Sao Paulo phone book was either Martin or Barbosa. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/44 "2018-06-04T21:17:07Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Cohen and Levi, the two ancient religious castes, are naturally the two most common Jewish names in Israel, with 1 in 25 people having one of them as their last name. It helps that virtually every Jewish community has them - you won’t find many Friedmans in North Africa or many Azulais in Poland, but Cohen and Levi are the same everywhere. Not sure what you mean by the same everywhere. Aside from Levi, there is Levy, Levin, Levitan. Aside from Cohen, I have seen Cohn, Cohan, Cahan, Kahn, Kahane, Kan, and I know a Kon, although that is rare. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/45 "2018-06-04T22:58:14Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > We once had a Brazilian exchange student and I remember him saying half the Sao Paulo phone book was either Martin or Barbosa. For Brazil in general (I don’t know the situation in Sao Paulo), Silva is by far the most popular surname, comprising a bit over 10% of the population. Next is Santos, with 6.7% and Sousa with 4.9% Just those three names account for 1 in 5 surnames in Brazil. (Martins is #13 at 1.83% and Barbosa is #16 at 1.52%). [From this source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_common_surnames_in_South_America#Brazil). ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/46 "2018-06-05T06:35:52Z")
The commonness of ‘Smith’ may be related to the specificity of the occupation. An industrious family might use their woodworking skills to build a mill and their culinary skills to produce cake from the milled grain — would they be known as Carpenter, Miller or Baker? But a Smith is a Smith. > [@](#): > > Calling someone John Farmer doesn’t distinguish him from all the other John Farmers, unlike John the miller, John the baker, John the tailor, John the carter, John the cooper, or John the smith. Nitpick: [The use of ‘farmer’ to mean churl or husbandman may be as recent as the 1590’s](https://www.etymonline.com/word/farmer). ‘Farmer,’ formerly often spelled ‘Fermor,’ is an occupational surname meaning tax-collector. Also, unlike ‘Atwood’ (for people who lived at the wood or forest) or ‘Banker’ (for people who lived at the riverbank or hill-slope), ‘Rivers’ was not a common geographic name but usually more aristocratic — Rivière being specific and generic placenames in France and Belgium (but especially Normandy). Many English aristocrats surnamed ‘Rivers’ descend from [Richard Woodville](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Woodville,_1st_Earl_Rivers) whose interesting connections made him first Baron and later Earl Rivers. This ‘Rivers’ seems to derive from Woodville’s noble ancestor Redvers/Reviers which name derives from the town of Reviers in Normandy. And many surnames have multiple sources, with spellings that eventually merged. For example ‘Revere’ may derive from afore-mentioned ‘de la Riviere’ or ‘Reviers’; or it could be an occupational surname ‘Reiver’ (robber!) or a common geographic surname ‘atter Evere’ (living at the brow of a hill). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/47 "2018-06-05T07:40:03Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Not sure what you mean by the same everywhere. Aside from Levi, there is Levy, Levin, Levitan. Aside from Cohen, I have seen Cohn, Cohan, Cahan, Kahn, Kahane, Kan, and I know a Kon, although that is rare. Note that Cohen, Cohn, Cohan, Cahan and Kahn are all spelled the same in Hebrew, as are Levi and Levy. But even setting that aside, my bet is that the original versions of the name were by far the most common everywhere, simply because they’re the versions that appear in scripture, and Jews all read the same bible no matter where they were. Remember, being a Cohen or a Levi actually has ritual meaning in Judaism - so if you’re a Cohen, you’d want people to know you’re a Cohen. That helps prevent linguistic creep. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/48 "2018-06-05T10:21:46Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In French-speaking Quebec, however, it’s “Tremblay,” with Gagnon, Roy, Cote and Gauthier rounding out the top five. NONE are especially common in France - in fact,\*\* there is virtually no correlation at all between popular Quebec and French surnames.\*\* _Tremblay_ does indeed sound typically Canadian French to me, as does _Gagnon_ to a slightly lesser extent. _Roy_ and _Gauthier_ could be European French surnames, however. > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > What I don’t understand, is WHY “Smith” became so common - because being a smith is a highly skilled trade! Surely there were WAY more farmers, soldiers, even other trades like weavers and woodworkers, than smiths. Being a smith presumably meant you had to spend a lot of money on all the shit you need to do the smithing, all the anvils and hammers and metal and other tools, plus they needed a building to be their shop, and they needed the long and arduous apprenticeship training to learn how to do the job. And somehow this became an ubiquitous name. I don’t understand it at all, actually, now that I’m thinking about it (and this is the first time I’ve ever really thought about it.) On a similar note, I’ve often been amazed by the huge variety of place names. You’d think that many of them you’d be called “River” or “Forest” or “Hill” or perhaps even just “Village” but in fact, you find an astonishing diversity of names. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/49 "2018-06-05T12:26:28Z")
The most common Dutch surnames are the following: 1 de Jong - “the younger”, so dad had the same first name 2 Jansen - son of Jan 3 de Vries - these guys wanted Napoleon to know they were Frisian 4 van den Berg - “Which Jan?” “The one who lives by the hill.” 5 van Dijk - “Which Jan?” “The one who lives on the dyke.” 6 Bakker - baker 7 Janssen - son of Jan again (not sure why they’re not adding these up together?) 8 Visser - fisherman 9 Smit - finally, the smith at number 9! 10 Meijer - like mayor, but probably also meant landlord (I think?) Capitalising the Van or De or even adding it to he rest of the name (Vanderbilt) is usually only done in other countries. In the Netherlands, it would be van der Bilt. Unsurprisingly there are many, many water-related surnames that are very common: - van Dijk (or Dijkstra) - van Vliet - van der Meer - van der Plas - Maas - van Rijn - van Dam - van Beek - de Wetering - van de Vaart When the Code Napoléon was adopted in the Netherlands, the Burgerlijke Stand was also created. In the Burgerlijke Stand all births, marriages, divorces and deaths are recorded. Everyone had to choose an official surname and stick with it. Some people tried to piss off Napoleon by choosing something funny, so some people are called Naaktgeboren (born naked) or Poepjes (poopies). Not sure how pissed off Napoleon was, tbh. Probably not the most effective form of civil disobedience. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/50 "2018-06-05T14:15:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Nitpick: [The use of ‘farmer’ to mean churl or husbandman may be as recent as the 1590’s](https://www.etymonline.com/word/farmer). ‘Farmer,’ formerly often spelled ‘Fermor,’ is an occupational surname meaning tax-collector. Interesting, there’s a Fermor Avenue in Winnipeg, so I guess now I know what it means. (It also means “gold farming” is a historically accurate profession. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/51 "2018-06-05T20:15:53Z")
> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > On a similar note, I’ve often been amazed by the huge variety of place names. You’d think that many of them you’d be called “River” or “Forest” or “Hill” or perhaps even just “Village” but in fact, you find an astonishing diversity of names. In the US and Canada, the most common origin of names is to be named after some person.[sup]1[/sup] Usually someone who was among the first people there – early settler, first postmaster, first store owner (who may be two or three of those in one person), – but could also be a mine or mill owner, someone associated with the railroad, or a famous person (most commonly a president or general). Or a relative (usually female) of one of those people. Descriptive names that you are suggesting are the second most common. However, even in those, there’s often some specific to distinguish this forest or river from all those other forests and rivers. That said, the most common individual names are mostly descriptive without a specific: Fairview, Five Points, Midway, Mount Pleasant, Riverside, Oak Grove, Centerville, Fairfield, Pleasant Valley, Mountain View, Springfield, etc. In the Old World, origins of placenames are not as well known. Researching them is more like recreating a dead language than looking up historical records. But I expect that the origins fall the same basic pattern: names derived from people’s names are most common followed by descriptive names. However, they’ve been around for centuries and subject to various modifications. So even if they were originally the same, they likely aren’t any more. [sup]1[/sup] The exception being in southern New England where most towns are named after an English town or county. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/52 "2018-06-06T04:28:34Z")
> [@lingyi](#): > > I wonder what % of these names are through assimilation. Immigrants who changed their surnames to one more common in their new country. I’d heard stories of officials changing immigrant surnames that were too difficult to chronicle at Ellis Island, but according to this Smithsonian Magazine article [https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/ask-smithsonian-did-ellis-island-officials-really-change-names-immigrants-180961544/), officials were well versed in multiple languages and strived to record the correct names. I can tell you of a type of Spanish lastname which was still being born in the Americas: toponymics. A toponymic lastname is one which identifies where someone comes from. We often use them as nicknames (Íñigo López called Loyola later renamed Ignatius and still called Loyola; Francisco Jaso called Xavier). If instead of being Jesuits with no known children Iggy and Frank had moved away from home and been in the company of many other men called Iggy and Frank, their children might inherit the nicknames. There are tons of those in the center-north of Spain, pretty much any village or town has an accompanying lastname (or even several with ortographic variations, see Ugarte / Huarte). But some of these were born in America, when people from those areas moved over there and you got for example ten guys called Juan of which two were Juan Samanes. OK, so what’s their second lastnames? Uh, Samanes. What, for both of them? Well, yeah, one is from Valtierra and one from Arguedas, everybody there is a Samanes except for those who are Les! OK, so we’ll call them Juan Valtierra and Juan Arguedas. And then their children inherited the nicknames… ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/53 "2018-06-06T12:30:09Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > I’d say it’s because France has a lot more surnames than Quebec. Sure, because, again, Quebec was founded by a relatively small number of people; it just stands to reason that fewer surnames would have migrated over and they would not necessarily be the most popular ones in modern day France. If I had some time today I’d look up similar correlations; do surnames in Brazil more or less match those in Portugal? Spanish-speaking countries versus Spain itself? What about other French colonies? > [@](#): > > … since the Canadians didn’t know how to spell Farnsworth, his name became first Farneth or Fanef and was eventually standardized to Phaneuf. All the Phaneufs in Quebec, as well as the rest of North America and the world, trace their lineage to this man. [History of the Phaneuf family](http://www.phaneufancetres.com/Phaneuf/histoire.htm). A little known fact is the English surname Farnsworth means “slow-footed defenceman.” ---
**Author:** ![Doyle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doyle/32/439_2.png) [@Doyle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doyle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/54 "2018-06-06T14:12:25Z")
From my neck of the woods. Most common Cajun names: 1. Hebert 2. Landry 3. Broussard 4. LeBlanc 5. Guidry 6. Fontenot 7. Richard 8. Boudreaux 9. Thibodeaux 10. Breaux 11. Trahan 12. Guillory 13. Bourgeois 14. Bergeron 15. Bordelon 16. Benoit 17. Romero 18. Theriot 19. Melancon 20. Cormier ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/55 "2018-06-07T04:46:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > In French-speaking Quebec, however, it’s “Tremblay,” with Gagnon, Roy, Cote and Gauthier rounding out the top five. NONE are especially common in France - in fact,\*\* there is virtually no correlation at all between popular Quebec and French surnames.\*\* I went to school in West Texas with a pair of siblings named Tremblay. Always assumed it was just French. They never indicated any Canadian connections. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/56 "2018-06-07T05:37:00Z")
> [@Doyle](#): > > From my neck of the woods. > > Most common Cajun names: > > 1. Hebert > 2. Landry > 3. Broussard > 4. LeBlanc > 5. Guidry > 6. Fontenot > 7. Richard > 8. Boudreaux > 9. Thibodeaux > 10. Breaux > 11. Trahan > 12. Guillory > 13. Bourgeois > 14. Bergeron > 15. Bordelon > 16. Benoit > 17. Romero > 18. Theriot > 19. Melancon > 20. Cormier There are also Boudreauxes and Benoits all over Nova Scotia. An unbelievable number of people - maybe 98% of everyone I’ve talked to about this - are unaware that the Acadians settled in Nova Scotia. Most people aren’t even sure where Nova Scotia is, or they confuse it with Prince Edward Island and assume it’s an island. There are also a lot of Melansons (spelled with an S, not a C) in the Maritimes. The name Gillis is also unbelievably common there - though I think this name may be Scottish and not French. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2018, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/57 "2018-06-08T07:10:55Z")
Well, talk about coincidence, this article was published today. It’s in French but I edited it to make it easier to parse, so it shouldn’t be a problem : > [@](#): > > Statbel a publié la liste des noms de famille les plus courants en Belgique. > > En première position, on retrouve « **Peeters** » (31.816 personnes), juste devant « **Janssens** » (29.309) et « **Maes** » (25.025). > > A Bruxelles, le nom le plus fréquent est « **Diallo** » (3.446), devant « **Bah** » (1.951) et « **Barry** » (1.376). > > En Wallonie, le nom de famille le plus courant est « **Dubois** » (9.421), devant « **Lambert** » (8.579) et « **Martin** » (6.809). ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/58 "2018-06-08T07:29:28Z")
> [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](#): > > Well, talk about coincidence, this article was published today. It’s in French but I edited it to make it easier to parse, so it shouldn’t be a problem : Brussels has quite a few of foreign origin, but I’m surprised that a west African name is #1. And even if there is a big population from there, it’s just one surname of many. Not sure what kind of name Bah is but it doesn’t sound French or Dutch. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/59 "2018-06-08T13:10:44Z")
**Bah** also appears to be West African. I agree that it’s unexpected. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338/60 "2018-06-08T14:40:33Z")
The phenomenon of Asians of all nationalities having just a few extremely popular names is a result of many hundreds of years of only royalty and nobles having surnames. Once it became socially acceptable for commoners to adopt surnames, most families shrewdly chose names that were associated with popular royals and nobles, thereby raising their perceived social status (or aligning themselves with those currently in power who would be “friendlier” to others sharing their name). Thus you end up with millions of people named Kim, Lee, Park, Nguyen, Wang, Zhang, Liu, etc. Unsurprisingly, as China was the dominant force in the region for millennia, almost all of these names are Chinese in origin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-smith-and-jones-around-the-world-most-common-names/815338.md?page=4)