# What the world really needs now is "fire & fury" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136 "2017-08-08T22:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/261 "2017-08-11T14:33:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It would be interesting to see what happens if NK stopped threatening the United States and instead just started threatening Japan and South Korea on a weekly basis. Would Trump allow Kim to continue threats, just not those aimed at the United States? I’m not predicting that this is what’ll happen, but it crossed my mind as a temporary face-saving strategy for Kim now that Trump might have called his bluff a little. I’m no expert on NK but it struck me as a possibility that Kim might be wary of threats from within his regime and that projecting toughness is how he survives, so any sort of appearance of backing down could cost him. He might view his ability to threaten someone as a means for ensuring his own survival. This is what I was sort of getting at yesterday with this post: > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Prediction: Kim will turn out to be (or appear to be) the grown-up in the room and unceremoniously drop this blustering, either on his own or because his handlers have locked him in the Executive Bathroom. > > But will Trump take the opportunity to quietly back off and let the issue deflate on its own? No, he will double-down and call Kim a pussy, a titty-baby, and a coward, while beating his chest and declaring himself the bestest and winningest President the USA has ever had. > … If Kim (being, if not smarter and/or more emotionally stable than Trump, is at least more experienced as a world leader) backs off or shifts his position, Trump will see that as weakness, and instead of taking the out, he will chase him and corner him. Why? Because he loves a fight and loves to imagine that he has his enemies on the run. And because he has the judgment of a two-year old. Apologies to the two-year olds in the world, who are, at least, \*learning \*every day, which Trump is not. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/262 "2017-08-11T14:44:22Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > This is what I was sort of getting at yesterday with this post:If Kim (being, if not smarter and/or more emotionally stable than Trump, is at least more experienced as a world leader) backs off or shifts his position, Trump will see that as weakness, and instead of taking the out, he will chase him and corner him. Why? Because he loves a fight and loves to imagine that he has his enemies on the run. And because he has the judgment of a two-year old. Apologies to the two-year olds in the world, who are, at least, \*learning \*every day, which Trump is not. This conflict has already devolved into: “C’mon! Hit me!” “No, you hit me!” “You hit me first!” “No, you hit me first!” … Nobody is going to hit anybody first because these two ass clowns (KJU & DJT) are intellectually deficient equals. Tinpot despots with huge egos and tiny dicks. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/263 "2017-08-11T14:45:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > … > Nobody is going to hit anybody first because these two ass clowns (KJU & DJT) are intellectually deficient equals. Tinpot despots with huge egos and tiny dicks. This is the biggest (as it were) reason for hope. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/264 "2017-08-11T15:01:56Z")
Remember when the rest of the world feared Reagan? His first day of office, the Iran hostages were released. They were afraid the senile old fuck wouldn’t hesitate to drop da bomb. Iran-Contra aside, that was the general impression. All he did was smile and dodder. Donald _could_ manage to convey the same worldwide paranoia if he weren’t such a laughable egocentric blowhard. At this point, we can only hope he’s dangerous in the _right_ way. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/265 "2017-08-11T15:20:22Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Donald _could_ manage to convey the same worldwide paranoia if he weren’t such a laughable egocentric blowhard. At this point, we can only hope he’s dangerous in the _right_ way. Agreed. He’s not complicated. He’s dangerous in the same way he’s always been dangerous and that’s because he’s intellectually deficient and doesn’t think through the consequences of his rhetoric/actions. It’s just that in this case it may just work out in everyone’s best interests. IOW, even an idiot gets lucky and guesses right every now and then. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/266 "2017-08-11T15:22:45Z")
What if the leader’s of NK didn’t know? America has become such a pacifist nation, maybe they didn’t know that an attack would lead to drastic retaliation? Has this been discussed before? So, Trump’s sharp words of warning might actually have been necessary, to dispel any notion of surrender and capitulation? Look at it the right way, you can easily see that Trump’s stern warning might actually \*prevent \*a war! Won’t hear about that on CNN! Fake nukes! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/267 "2017-08-11T15:35:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This conflict has already devolved into: > > “C’mon! Hit me!” > “No, you hit me!” > “You hit me first!” > “No, you hit me first!” > … > > Nobody is going to hit anybody first because these two ass clowns (KJU & DJT) are intellectually deficient equals. Tinpot despots with huge egos and tiny dicks. One thing to remember, the Korean tinpot despot has ordered people killed including family members. Even Trump never thought of that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/268 "2017-08-11T15:44:32Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > One thing to remember, the Korean tinpot despot has ordered people killed including family members. > Even Trump never thought of that. He’s said it in the context of terrorists. I’m sure he’s thought it in the context of business rivals or even more petty reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/269 "2017-08-11T15:45:41Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Remember when the rest of the world feared Reagan? His first day of office, the Iran hostages were released. They were afraid the senile old fuck wouldn’t hesitate to drop da bomb. Iran-Contra aside, that was the general impression. All he did was smile and dodder. > > Donald _could_ manage to convey the same worldwide paranoia if he weren’t such a laughable egocentric blowhard. At this point, we can only hope he’s dangerous in the _right_ way. I don’t recall Reagan saying he _wanted_ to use The Bomb over and over again…but I _do_ recall a lot of pundits and Republican apologists saying that Trump was an ineffective dolt that never has a chance of winning and getting in control of that much power, so excuse me if I don’t take “Trump’s just a blowhard and will never follow through” on faith. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/270 "2017-08-11T15:50:18Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > China is apparently signalling that it will not intervene if the DPRK launches missiles threatening the US and the US retaliates. > > [www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92\_story.html?utm\_term=.0747c9c89e91](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.0747c9c89e91) China is tired of their shit too. A rogue vassal (who won’t listen) right at their doorstep, China is probably secretly just hoping NK acts first so they have an excuse to not save their lunatic asses. As ruthless and opressive as the Chinese gov’t can be, China is still paradise compared to “Best Korea”. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/271 "2017-08-11T16:00:02Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > One thing to remember, the Korean tinpot despot has ordered people killed including family members. > Even Trump never thought of that. Dump deliberately revoked and denied health coverage for the very sick baby of a very close relative, as a form of revenge over money matters. So yes he has, just in a more indirect way. NEVER underestimate his vindictiveness and cruelty. He rally is a fucking monster. > **[What Sort of Man Is Donald Trump?](https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/what-sort-of-man-is-donald-trump)** > > The Republican front-runner’s ruthless response to a challenge to his father’s will, in 2000, may reveal a lot about his character. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump in February, 2000, around the time that a dispute over their father’s will led Trump and two of his siblings to cut off health-care coverage for his nephew’s chronically ill child. … > > And, buried toward the end, it also referred to an incident that says something about the adult Trump, what sort of a person he is, and what kind of President he might be. In 2000, during a family dispute about the details of his father’s will, Trump, who was by then fabulously wealthy in his own right, cut off benefits from the family health plan that were paying for the medical care of his nephew’s seriously ill young son. … > > According to Evans’s account, the baby, William Trump—whose father, Fred Trump III, is Freddy’s son—had been diagnosed with “infantile spasms, a rare disorder that can lead to cerebral palsy or autism and a lifetime of care.” (The Times article notes that William did develop cerebral palsy.) This chronic illness required round-the-clock nursing care and frequent visits to medical specialists and emergency rooms. Twice in the first eight months of his life, William stopped breathing. At that stage, fortunately for the baby and his family, he was being covered under a medical plan paid for by a Trump family company… > > Trump, for his part, was unapologetic about his actions. “Why should we give him medical coverage?” he told Evans. … [http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/trumps-bitter-battle-nephew-ailing-baby-caught-middle-article-1.888562](http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/trumps-bitter-battle-nephew-ailing-baby-caught-middle-article-1.888562) > [@](#): > > INSIDE TRUMPS’ BITTER BATTLE Nephew’s ailing baby caught in the middle > > Even when it comes to a sick baby in his family, Donald Trump is all business. The megabuilder and his siblings Robert and Maryanne terminated their nephew’s family medical coverage a week after he challenged the will of their father, Fred Trump. “This was so shocking, so disappointing and so vindictive,” said niece Lisa Trump, whose son, William, was born 18 months ago at Mount Sinai Medical Center with a rare neurological disorder that produces violent seizures, brain damage and medical bills topping $300,000. The Trump family feud has come to light in recent days as the dispute over Fred Trump’s estate is being played out in Queens Surrogate Court. The patriarch left between $100 million and $300 million, according to different family estimates. A separate case over the denial of medical coverage that Fred Trump freely provided to his family for decades was filed in Nassau Supreme Court. Both lawsuits were filed by Fred Trump 3rd and Mary Trump, the children of Donald’s late brother, Fred Jr. They offer a rare window into one of New York’s most prominent families, a world where alliances and rivalries are magnified by power, money and the tough-nosed tactics of Donald Trump. "When [Fred 3rd] sued us, we said, 'Why should we give him medical coverage? > > '" Donald said in an interview with the Daily News last week. Asked whether he thought cutting their coverage could appear cold-hearted, given the baby’s medical condition, Donald made no apologies. “I can’t help that,” he said. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/272 "2017-08-11T16:01:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > This conflict has already devolved into: > > “C’mon! Hit me!” > “No, you hit me!” > “You hit me first!” > “No, you hit me first!” > … > > Nobody is going to hit anybody first because these two ass clowns (KJU & DJT) are intellectually deficient equals. Tinpot despots with huge egos and tiny dicks. Two Cartmans, trying to “ro-sham-bo” each other. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/273 "2017-08-11T16:04:23Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Dump deliberately revoked and denied health coverage for the very sick baby of a very close relative, as a form of revenge over money matters. So yes he has, just in a more indirect way. > > NEVER underestimate his vindictiveness and cruelty. He rally is a fucking monster. > > [What Sort of Man Is Donald Trump? | The New Yorker](http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/what-sort-of-man-is-donald-trump) > > [http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/trumps-bitter-battle-nephew-ailing-baby-caught-middle-article-1.888562](http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/trumps-bitter-battle-nephew-ailing-baby-caught-middle-article-1.888562) You’re right, I had forgotten that. And I even posted the story during the campaign. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/274 "2017-08-11T16:18:55Z")
Here’s the problem. Trump thinks: Hey, threats and unpredictability are what we should use against North Korea. We threaten them, they don’t know what we’re going to do, they back down, winning! But you know, when you release your impromptu threats on twitter, it turns out that it’s not just North Korea that reads those words. It’s the American people. It’s our allies. It’s China. It’s Russia. So even if it would make sense to strongly threaten North Korea, how does the rest of the world that is not North Korea interpret your words? And Trump clearly believes that unpredictability is a great tactic, it worked for him in business, right? So be unpredictable to your enemies, makes sense. But the problem is that in business you’re working for yourself. You aren’t answerable to the public. So this sort of thing, “Hey, let them think maybe we’ll nuke them, or start a war…the more uncertain the North Koreans are about our intentions the better” neglects that it’s not just North Korea that is uncertain. It’s the American people. It’s our military. It’s our allied governments. It’s China. And this is why everybody who deals with Trump is an idiot, because according to his principles you can’t believe anything he says. Oh, he promised to do something for you? I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further. Which means you can’t ever make a deal with Trump, because Trump doesn’t believe in deals, he believes in screwing the other guy. This is what happens when you get a reputation as a con man. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/275 "2017-08-11T16:27:53Z")
Can’t seem to find a link but word from AP Radio News is that our allies are becoming increasingly concerned about the threats coming from from those Cheeto fingers. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/276 "2017-08-11T17:36:47Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Let’s see… > > Increase number of troops in Afghanistan… > > Renege on the nuclear deal with Iran… > > Provoke North Korea into a new military entanglement, possibly leading to a nuclear exchange… > > Troll China on the South China Sea… > > Jesus Christ. How many fights shall we conduct simultaneously? I’m already so sick of “winning.” Don’t worry. Jared Kushner is on top of it all. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/277 "2017-08-11T19:00:33Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > China is apparently signalling that it will not intervene if the DPRK launches missiles threatening the US and the US retaliates. > > [www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92\_story.html?utm\_term=.0747c9c89e91](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.0747c9c89e91) More accurate read: If NK starts it, we’re staying out. But if somebody starts shit with NK - it’s WW3 time. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/278 "2017-08-11T19:34:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I don’t recall Reagan saying he _wanted_ to use The Bomb over and over again…but I _do_ recall a lot of pundits and Republican apologists saying that Trump was an ineffective dolt that never has a chance of winning and getting in control of that much power, so excuse me if I don’t take “Trump’s just a blowhard and will never follow through” on faith. What is Trump’s number one priority? His brand. He wants to attract investors to his brand, and sees the presidency as a way of expanding his brand. Appearing as confident, tough-talking and quick to act makes him look good, while doing the least amount of actual work, planning and soul-searching. He also keeps scapegoats in reserve in case something potentially tarnishes his brand, but upon whom can he foist the nuke decision? Nobody in his circle of advisers is going to volunteer for that. Ordering da bomb to drop on NK would be way out of his comfort zone. Such violence and brutality would be bad for his image, and investors might back out. He doesn’t want to deal with NKor. He tried to cajole China into taking care of it, and that went absolutely nowhere. Fallout from Asian investors is too much for him to think about. His rhetoric about trade imbalances was just a quick negotiating tactic which might have worked in the business world, but not in foreign policy. He can’t threaten China with bad press or dropped contracts like he does his contractors. All he can do is wag his cocktail wienie finger at Kim and say “boy, are you gonna be in trouble!” His buddy Putin wouldn’t like it either, and he controls mucho dinero. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/279 "2017-08-11T19:41:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In your view, is this the optimal approach? I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows for sure. What I do know is what we’ve done so far hasn’t worked, and it seems to me everything’s been tried. And failed. > [@Bayard](#): > > China is apparently signalling that it will not intervene if the DPRK launches missiles threatening the US and the US retaliates. > > [www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92\_story.html?utm\_term=.0747c9c89e91](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.0747c9c89e91) > [@GrandWino](#): > > More accurate read: If NK starts it, we’re staying out. But if somebody starts shit with NK - it’s WW3 time. It might mean what you added, it’s not entirely clear (or maybe it is, in which case who cares. We won’t strike them first). But what is clear (and I assume good news to many) is that if NK starts anything against the US, Beijing doesn’t have their back. That’s big. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/280 "2017-08-11T19:50:07Z")
Not so much worried about the tightrope as I am about the banana peel on the tightrope. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136.md?page=15)