# What the world really needs now is "fire & fury" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136 "2017-08-08T22:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/281 "2017-08-11T20:08:47Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > But what is clear (and I assume good news to many) is that if NK starts anything against the US, Beijing doesn’t have their back. > > That’s big. What does “start anything” mean? At present NK is threatening to send unarmed missiles into international waters near Guam — totally legal AFAIK. Trump has threatened to attack preemptively not only if NK does just that, but even if they talk about it. Clearly it would be the orange sociopath who aggressed in such a scenario. The good news is that, with Bannon, Rancid Idiotibus, and the Mooch all side-lined, key Trump advisers are all adults now. If somebody would just delete Trump’s Twitter account we’d be safe. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/282 "2017-08-11T20:25:02Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > What does “start anything” mean? At present NK is threatening to send unarmed missiles into international waters near Guam — totally legal AFAIK. Trump has threatened to attack preemptively not only if NK does just that, but even if they talk about it. Clearly it would be the orange sociopath who aggressed in such a scenario. > > The good news is that, with Bannon, Rancid Idiotibus, and the Mooch all side-lined, key Trump advisers are all adults now. If somebody would just delete Trump’s Twitter account we’d be safe. We don’t need to threaten to retaliate. It’s pretty obvious that we would, if we were attacked. We do not need to retaliate immediately. When we see missiles coming in our general direction, we don’t need to launch back, north korea isn’t going anywhere. We really shouldn’t retaliate until or unless an actual nuclear munition goes off in our or one of our allies territories. When it was russia, we needed to retaliate as soon as we saw missiles, because they had the ability to degrade our ability to retaliate in their first strike. Our missiles needed to be on the way before they were destroyed or rendered useless by loss of communication. North Korea is not going to be diminishing our nuclear or any other type of capability, no matter what they try to throw at us, so we can take our time in retaliation. Our real concern should be our allies in the area, and preventing as much casualties as we can. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/283 "2017-08-11T20:41:50Z")
Adults all realize that. Even Donny Boy probably does, though lacking any humanitarian values he may allow whim and his own bluster to do the irrational. Rather than a holocaust on the Korean Peninsula the likeliest risks are subtler, e.g. China taking over from U.S.A. the role of the world’s most respected economic, political and military superpower. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/284 "2017-08-11T21:35:34Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > No Trump fan here, though I suppose you could find bigger haters than me. > > IMHO: I am not so sure I can blame Trump if things devolve into military conflict with NK. This situation has been brewing since 1953, or sooner. Now, unlike the situation in Iraq, we have a crazy regime that is testing nuclear bombs and launching missiles. How does this end well? > > I’d like to think there is an acceptable way out that doesn’t result in hundreds of thousands of casualties, (and I’d sure like Trump to at least try to act like an adult once in a while), but maybe there isn’t. With Hillary in the WH, we’d still have a crazy regime testing nuclear bombs and launching missiles. How does this end well? > > Hopefully, the 'dope can explain to me why I’m stupid and what is the reasonable way to deal with NK. You’re stupid for thinking the Pit is here for explanations … what the hell were you thinking posting sensible and clear-headed statements … fine then, be non-insulting if you wish … just remember you expose yourself to the absolute worst comment of all time: I agree with you … **THAT** should scare the living shit outta ya … ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/285 "2017-08-11T21:50:54Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > If somebody would just delete Trump’s Twitter account we’d be safe. Need to keep him away from the press as well. His latest words also threaten DPRK if they “start anything” and (AFAIK) that’s not from a tweet. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/286 "2017-08-11T22:05:08Z")
[Guam issues official guidelines to survive a nuclear attack.](http://https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/11/16127990/guam-guidelines-nuclear-attack) On the upside, I bet there’ll be some massively discounted holiday packages. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/287 "2017-08-11T22:24:57Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > [Guam issues official guidelines to survive a nuclear attack.](http://https://www.vox.com/world/2017/8/11/16127990/guam-guidelines-nuclear-attack) > > On the upside, I bet there’ll be some massively discounted holiday packages. [A Message From The Guam Tourist Board](https://youtu.be/PIJSTuyYDEg) - CONAN on TBS (YouTube) I guess you could call it a vacation hot spot. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/288 "2017-08-11T22:43:21Z")
So now fuckface is saying that military action against Venezuela is an option. I’m not sure what Venezuela’s done, other than sitting on oil Putin or Trump might want. In any case, I hope we’re next. That would go over like gangbusters. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/289 "2017-08-12T05:03:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Don’t worry. Jared Kushner is on top of it all. Ah, well, that’s better, then. The breadth and depth of his diplomatic experience and knowledge… my knees are weak with relief. :dubious: The list grows longer with Venezuela. Probably can also add Cuba and California to Two Scoops’ hit list. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/290 "2017-08-12T07:24:21Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > A military response is certainly appropriate, but a nuclear one is not, not for NK. If a nuke gets dropped on this country, then a response in kind is the _only_ appropriate response. To not do so is to send out a signal to every nuclear-armed nation in the world that you can nuke us and we won’t nuke you back, and thus is the entire status quo of nuclear deterrence broken permanently. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/291 "2017-08-12T07:40:25Z")
A Grenada do-over. Cuban bulldozers are extending the runways so that big jets from Venezuela can land huge cargoes of opiates, and American veterinary students are being held hostage on sex farms. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/292 "2017-08-12T09:09:27Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > The good news is that, with Bannon, Rancid Idiotibus, and the Mooch all side-lined, key Trump advisers are all adults now. Yes, but they are stupid horrible adults for the most part. The kind of adults you get when you let a petulant child pick his own babysitters. Now some of them might not seem so bad at times, but that’s just because they are surrounded by people that are way more stupid and horrible than they are. But even the most adult of the bunch would be the most stupid and horrible person in the room in a decent administration. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/293 "2017-08-12T11:21:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If a nuke gets dropped on this country, then a response in kind is the _only_ appropriate response. To not do so is to send out a signal to every nuclear-armed nation in the world that you can nuke us and we won’t nuke you back, and thus is the entire status quo of nuclear deterrence broken permanently. I disagree. A conventional military attack which removes the Kim regime from power would be just as strong a deterrent as a nuclear counter-strike. It’s the North Korean government not the North Korean people who will order any attacks against us, so the North Korean government should be the target for our response. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/294 "2017-08-12T14:25:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I disagree. A conventional military attack which removes the Kim regime from power would be just as strong a deterrent as a nuclear counter-strike. But harder and more time-consuming to pull off. And attempting to do so and failing would be catastrophic. > [@](#): > > It’s the North Korean government not the North Korean people who will order any attacks against us, so the North Korean government should be the target for our response. Well, sure, let’s get James Bond to assassinate the key players. Oh, wait, he’s fictional. In reality, you’re not going to take out that government without also killing a lot of bystanders. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/295 "2017-08-12T15:36:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If a nuke gets dropped on this country, then a response in kind is the _only_ appropriate response. To not do so is to send out a signal to every nuclear-armed nation in the world that you can nuke us and we won’t nuke you back, and thus is the entire status quo of nuclear deterrence broken permanently. We can topple the regime just fine without using nukes. The signal that would be sent to everyone is that we will respond with a proportional and rational response, not just some knee-jerk retaliation that is more about getting even than it is about actually preventing further launches. > [@Broomstick](#): > > But harder and more time-consuming to pull off. And attempting to do so and failing would be catastrophic. > Well, sure, let’s get James Bond to assassinate the key players. Oh, wait, he’s fictional. > > In reality, you’re not going to take out that government without also killing a lot of bystanders. We can take out the entire city that they are in. We don’t need to assassinate individually. (BTW, are you saying that the world’s intelligence agencies do not have assassins?) We can take out the govt, and there will be a number bystanders in the city that get killed. Nukes will just kill more people, without killing any more of the key players. If what we are going for is the goal of killing as many north koreans as we can, then sure, we should use nukes, that’s what they are good for. Personally, I don’t see any need to kill any more civilians than are necessary, so I see a more measured, surgical and effective approach to be more pragmatic. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/296 "2017-08-12T16:03:16Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > China is apparently signalling that it will not intervene if the DPRK launches missiles threatening the US and the US retaliates. > > [www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92\_story.html?utm\_term=.0747c9c89e91](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-warns-north-korea-youre-on-your-own-if-you-go-after-the-us/2017/08/11/a01a4396-7e68-11e7-9026-4a0a64977c92_story.html?utm_term=.0747c9c89e91) They made it very clear, that this non-intervention only holds if NK acts first. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/297 "2017-08-12T16:06:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In your view, is this the optimal approach? I would prefer a different approach - \*“Kim, stop being a jerk and we will send food, but keep it up and we will strengthen sanctions.” \* Actually, I would not mind if China whacked him, shot his generals and took over. China may not be wonderful, but compared to Best Korea, it’s a paradise (all things being relative). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/298 "2017-08-12T16:10:06Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Can’t seem to find a link but word from AP Radio News is that our allies are becoming increasingly concerned about the threats coming from from those Cheeto fingers. Now he is threatening military action on Venezuela too. Apparently he is willing to sacrifice American lives to save PUTIN’s oil deals. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/299 "2017-08-12T16:20:41Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If a nuke gets dropped on this country, then a response in kind is the _only_ appropriate response. To not do so is to send out a signal to every nuclear-armed nation in the world that you can nuke us and we won’t nuke you back, and thus is the entire status quo of nuclear deterrence broken permanently. Except Trump has moved on to “anything”. I doubt you’re fine with a nuclear response to Kim looking at him wrong. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136/300 "2017-08-12T16:45:37Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > (BTW, are you saying that the world’s intelligence agencies do not have assassins?) Shhhh, don’t give away The Sooper-Sekrit Plan. If you see ads for “short guys with bad haircuts, must be able to travel starting this afternoon”, that’s the insertion team that’ll surreptitiously wander into Kim’s briefings… what they don’t tell you is that you may not wander out again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-the-world-really-needs-now-is-fire-fury/793136.md?page=16)