# What things can conservatism NOT do without, when boiled down to its core?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [July 10, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839 "2023-07-10T01:33:55Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/61 "2023-07-12T20:16:41Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> Not in _our_ economy, no, but it did manifest in a lot of other places, and lots of Westerners held those places up as examples to be followed, even as they lagged behind the West.
>
> Or did you forget about that whole Cold War thingy?
So you’re saying that socialism manifested an economic impact in communist countries? I’m not going to disagree. But tell me about the US Socialist movement’s influence in creating pure socialism or communism in the world?
And what on earth do you think the Cold War thingy was anyway?
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/62 "2023-07-12T20:19:29Z")
> [@TriPolar](#):
>
> So you’re saying that socialism manifested an economic impact in communist countries? I’m not going to disagree.
Then what the hell are we arguing about? “The Left” encompasses more than just the US.
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### Author:  [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/63 "2023-07-12T20:22:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> My plan is to not get in each other’s face.
To liberally paraphrase Seinfeld, people who carry guns around Wal-Mart _want_ to get in your face. That’s why they _carry_ guns around Wal-Mart.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/64 "2023-07-12T20:27:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Hard disagree. Most of the pro-life movement, small though it might be, consists of liberals (in contrast to the much larger anti-choice movement that conservatives have a lock on). And there are still a few folks who are anti-LGBT, or anti- some part of that (most often anti-trans even if pro-gay), but still liberal on other issues. Not very many any more, but a few, especially in sparser or more insular areas where they might not know any out gay and/or transgendered folks.
Right. LGBT is kinda new as these things go. But pretty much now gay rights to marriage is a core liberal belief. Transgender rights is too new to make it a cornerstone, especially as there are older hard core liberals who are confused and ignorant about Transgender rights.
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> To the OP, though, the fundamental thing that conservatism cannot do without is an enemy.
That’s not conservatism. That is the modern GOP party, Dont confuse the two.
But reading further, that is what nearly everyone is doing. MAGA is not conservative. Conservative is old fashioned, yes, which means it is always a little bit bigoted, since conservatives are slow to change… but so are many liberals.
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### Author:  [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/65 "2023-07-12T20:53:54Z")
You don’t really seem to be asking about liberalism or conservatism in general, but rather what beliefs are considered essential by the Democratic and Republican parties in July 2023. What beliefs will get you more or less excommunicated from the party if you don’t share them? In which case, being pro-gun, pro-life, and anti-tax increases seems pretty central for the latter. Increasingly (and unfortunately) supporting Trump and being at least sceptical of the Covid vaccine seems necessary, too. You can probably get a good idea of what’s important by looking at which issues Trump has switched position on. Since his fans are so devoted to him, anything he can’t change their minds on and instead has to adjust to their opinion must be pretty foundational.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/66 "2023-07-12T20:58:01Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> We need to stop hating each other, and we liberals must begin it.
Liberals have been trying for a long time. Conservatives have only moved further to the right in that time pulling the Overton Window to the right along with them.
It is difficult to stop hating a group that is _actively_ trying to harm people, have been for over 50 years (arguably since the country existed) and are only becoming more brazen and aggressive about it in recent years.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/67 "2023-07-12T21:03:28Z")
> [@DemonTree](#):
>
> In which case, being pro-gun, pro-life, and anti-tax increases seems pretty central for the latter.
I’m not aware of any current Republicans in power who are pro-life. Anti-choice and pro-life are not the same thing.
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### Author:  [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/68 "2023-07-12T21:08:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> Anti-choice and pro-life are not the same thing.
Can you explain the difference?
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/69 "2023-07-12T21:26:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> MAGA is not conservative.
Agreed – but most MAGAts will claim to be conservative because it implies some sort of coherent philosophy. Also because they’ve been told it’s the opposite of liberal, and they understand liberal = bad.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/70 "2023-07-12T21:32:49Z")
Pro-life:
- for a decent social safety net
- for free child care
- for livable wages
- for generous immigration policies
- against death penalty
Anti-choice
- against abortions for anyone not exactly like themselves.
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### Author:  [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/71 "2023-07-12T21:34:43Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#):
>
> Pro-life:
>
> - for a decent social safety net
> - for free child care
> - for livable wages
> - for generous immigration policies
> - against death penalty
And I suppose the Ministry of Peace was anti-war.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/72 "2023-07-12T21:37:13Z")
To be fair, this is just people changing definitions for their own reasons.
The US pro-life movement in the US has long been the label applied to those opposed to abortion.
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### Author:  [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/73 "2023-07-12T21:44:13Z")
What are you trying to say?
“Pro-life” is the newspeak name people call their own anti-abortion efforts.
Those people are very seldom “pro-life” in a more literal meaning.
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### Author:  [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/74 "2023-07-12T21:49:09Z")
As Whack-a-Mole has pointed out “Pro-life” is an anti-choice movement and has been for decades. Perhaps it’s a term less used now and media that pass this kind of information around are less credulous on that particular point but the term has an established meaning and people are going to take it to mean what it has always meant in the past regardless of what you intend.
Has the term gone out of use now? Am I as old as I feel?
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### Author:  [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2023, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/75 "2023-07-12T22:40:31Z")
@The_Librarian is not an American. Which is fine, but also suggests that their use of US political buzzwords is not perfectly idiomatic.
In the USA “Pro-life” is the standard euphemism for the anti-abortion position. No more and no less. It admits of zero other considerations beyond a rigid stand against abortion in all its forms. With a side order of being anti-birth control too.
Like most euphemisms designed by an activist group to disguise their true intent, it’s a crappy label viewed as a piece of English language construction. The idiom does not mean what the words it’s built from would mean in isolation. Never did, never will.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/76 "2023-07-13T01:44:06Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#):
>
> To liberally paraphrase Seinfeld, people who carry guns around Wal-Mart _want_ to get in your face. That’s why they _carry_ guns around Wal-Mart.
So we stop getting into their face so they won’t get into ours.
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### Author:  [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/77 "2023-07-13T02:05:13Z")
Again, for certain of us, existing counts as getting in their face.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2023, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/78 "2023-07-13T02:12:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> So we stop getting into their face so they won’t get into ours.
As has been repeatedly pointed out, some of us seriously doubt this would work. At all. Your premise seems to be that they are “getting in our faces” as a retaliatory gesture. This is not true.
They are doing this out of bigotry, malice and hatred of those “others”
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2023, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/79 "2023-07-13T03:11:56Z")
To add: If we “get out of their faces about their bigotry and damaging behaviour, I suspect they’ll just think “it’s working! Let’s double down on the insults and persecution!”
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [July 13, 2023, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-things-can-conservatism-not-do-without-when-boiled-down-to-its-core/986839/80 "2023-07-13T03:37:57Z")
Conservatism as practiced by today’s GOP has two core principles: trickle-down economics, and returning women to unpaid labor roles. Everything they do is ultimately aimed at either concentrating wealth with the top 3%, or keeping women barefoot and pregnant. The attacks on lgbtq+ folk are just to concentrate their core through hate, and distract tje rest from tje legislation they are passing. It’s a heinous attack -please don’t misunderstand me- but it’s not their real agenda.
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