# What this place reminds me of **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160 "2013-07-22T03:56:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/21 "2013-07-22T10:53:38Z")
Huh. I just read a perfectly fitting and apt rant that was both righteous and liberating to the OP who needed to ‘get it out’, yet could see the wisdom of not doing so to those actually involved. For the self evident reason that no good would come of it. I think we’ve all been there. I think this is a very safe place for that very thing. And I don’t see anything wrong with it, to be honest. Leaving aside your monkey story, which seems above all to be about you feeling superior, I think instead of young men. Young men who are play fighting, rough housing whatever you want to call it, we’ve all seen it play out. Sometimes the men have been drinking and it actually strays into real anger and real fisticuffs, yet still leaves them both bosom friends when it finally ends. Women stand round, rolling their eyes, tsk tsking and decrying what children men are, pretty much. You know why they don’t do more? Because they recognize that the men both are willing combatants, know the risk that one or the other could get a black eye, and yet still want to play! No one is making you read threads you find ‘beneath’ you. Please explain why, if the pit so offends your superior sensibilities, you’re hanging out there? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/22 "2013-07-22T10:56:19Z")
The first monkey was rational. The rest were Guin. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/23 "2013-07-22T11:03:53Z")
Are you the guy with the hose in this analogy? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/24 "2013-07-22T11:18:56Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Here’s a little parable that this subforum brings to mind: > > "Five Monkeys were put in a large cage with a flight of steps, on the top of which was a banana. Soon a Monkey saw the banana and began up the steps to get it. All the Monkeys were sprayed with water. This stopped that Monkey and upset all the other Monkeys as well. Every time any Monkey attempted to climb the stairs to get the banana, all the Monkeys were sprayed with water. Before long, if one of them tried to climb the stairs, all the others would attack him and stop him. At this point, water spraying was no longer necessary. > > Then one of the Monkeys was replaced with a new Monkey who had no experience of stairs, the banana or water spraying. Very soon the new Monkey saw the banana and headed for it. The other four Monkeys attacked him and stopped him. After a few more tries, he gave up. Then a second one of the original Monkeys was replaced with a new one. When he noticed the banana, he too jumped onto the steps to get it, and was attacked by the others. The first new Monkey joined in the attack on the second new Monkey enthusiastically. > > Then a third Monkey was replaced, and, when he attempted the stairs for the banana, all the others attacked him until the third Monkey no longer made any such attempt. The same thing happened when the fourth Monkey and then the fifth Monkey were in turn replaced. Now there were five new Monkeys preventing each other from climbing the stairs, completely accepting that none of them may climb the stairs or have the banana. Even though not one of them had any idea why." > > from [http://www.liberatedthinking.com/data/Library/Christianity/Why%20Christianity/Five%20Monkeys.htm](http://www.liberatedthinking.com/data/Library/Christianity/Why%20Christianity/Five%20Monkeys.htm) > > Not everyone engages in the pointless abuse like the monkeys do, but a lot do. It’s a stupid story even when it’s somewhat applicable to a situation. The monkeys aren’t engaging in pointless abuse, they’re enforcing a social norm with a perfectly rational origin. Sure it’s possible that the last set of monkeys, never having been exposed to the original stimuli, maintain this behaviour perfectly, allowing no one access to the bananas that are now actually safe to reach for, and sure it’s possible that there are real life situation where old habits are maintained despite them being detrimental, but how’s that applicable to this subforum? No one is being whipped into conforming here. This isn’t a correctional facility. It’s a space for venting when the rules of rational debate are just to strict to let you say what you really mean about someone truly stupid. It’s even open to idiots saying what they really mean about the rational. ---
**Author:** ![Tracijo67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@Tracijo67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracijo67)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/25 "2013-07-22T11:48:21Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But one can’t vent here either! When you come here to vent about the dickheads you have to deal with in real life (retail cashiers, street people, etc. AKA failures) you are complaining about the average Dopers brethren. > > So rather than understanding that by venting here you remain, like me, a sweetheart teddy bear in real life (because you “got it all out” here) they attack you. > You wind up trying to justify your frustrations and why you’re venting, but intellectual knowitalls couldn’t possibly care less and will continue to attack you. > Eventually you’ll not vent it here but vent it in real life and not only become prick, but make people in your real life miserable. > > Then someone will come on these boards and bitch about **you** and they’ll get attacked. Humor and humility. If you fall short of either, you won’t survive this life. You won’t survive it in any event, but H&H sure makes the ride more enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/26 "2013-07-22T12:08:32Z")
12 Monkeys was one of my favorite Brad Pitt/Bruce Willis movies. I really liked that part with that one guy. ---
**Author:** ![Missy2U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@Missy2U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Missy2U)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/27 "2013-07-22T12:12:12Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Here’s a little parable that this subforum brings to mind: > > SNIP Get the fuck over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/28 "2013-07-22T12:13:23Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Well, you raised several points. Let me address each one in turn. > > 1. Do you think that all the venting here is of equal value? > > 2. Oh, I don’t doubt that a few people here are about the same as their IRL selves. None of the worst offenders do that stuff IRL, though. I mean, maybe that behavior flies in Chicago, Massachusetts, or South Florida, but… > > 3. Sure, saying what everyone is thinking-but-not-saying can be therapeutic. That’s not what the worst offenders here are usually doing, though, wouldn’t you agree? Nonsensical points. 1 - it is to the poster 2 - What? 3 - No. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/29 "2013-07-22T12:35:18Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > If this place gives you the vapors I’d suggest not venturing elsewhere on the world wide tubes. This place may as well be a nunnery. Why do you think **get lives** is here? Someone told him to “Get thee”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/30 "2013-07-22T12:38:12Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Are you the guy with the hose in this analogy? Wimpin’ ain’t easy. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/31 "2013-07-22T12:56:54Z")
Mijin writes: \> I presume it’s intended to show to some aspect of groupthink, or blind faith say? My point in giving a citation for the original research is that the description of this experiment as given in the OP isn’t even accurate. The experiment’s description has been distorted through layers of retellings. Somebody here should read the article that this anecdote originated in and tell us what actually happened in this experiment. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/32 "2013-07-22T13:33:03Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > 1. Do you think that all the venting here is of equal value? Of course not. Yours, for example, is particularly worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Spud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spud/32/347_2.png) [@Spud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spud)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/33 "2013-07-22T13:42:16Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Not everyone engages in the pointless abuse like the monkeys do, but a lot do. Yeah, you haven’t been here long, but some of us have and we still vividly remember the spraying and shocks… so shut the fuck up and stop climbing the stairs asshole! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/34 "2013-07-22T14:02:51Z")
The OP’s right! Religion is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Mithras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mithras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithras)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/35 "2013-07-22T14:05:04Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Mijin writes: > > \> I presume it’s intended to show to some aspect of groupthink, or blind faith say? > > My point in giving a citation for the original research is that the description of this experiment as given in the OP isn’t even accurate. The experiment’s description has been distorted through layers of retellings. Somebody here should read the article that this anecdote originated in and tell us what actually happened in this experiment. I skimmed the study because I’d run into it as the OP described before and was curious about its authenticity each time. But never curious enough while in front of a computer to actually track it down. If you’re right that Stephenson is the source, you’re also right that it is not all all as described above. Monkeys were individually put into a cage with an object. If the monkey tried to manipulate the object, it was blasted with air. Once it had learned to avoid the object, it was placed in the same cage with the same object with an additional monkey of the same sex. Researchers then observed whether the second monkey learned to avoid the object or not. The results were that in three pairs of monkeys (all males) the second monkey learned to avoid the object. In three other pairs (all females) the second monkey did not avoid the object and, in fact, the first monkey learned that it was okay to manipulate it. That’s pretty interesting, actually. And here I thought this thread was going to be a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/36 "2013-07-22T14:10:38Z")
Wait! So if those monkeys had a message board then one of the original monkeys (Davy, Mike, Peter, Mickey, doesn’t matter which one) would have possibly complained on that message board about how the fuckin hose is such a huge pain in the ass. Then later generations of monkeys (here we come) could search back in the message board (walkin down the street) and discover that there was a classic zombie thread (get the funniest looks from) that would explain why they should avoid the stairs and take the lift. Then they wouldn’t need some asshole newbie ({just about} everyone we meet {lately}) to come to the message board and shit out his sage wisdom. hey hey We’re the monkeys! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/37 "2013-07-22T14:19:44Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > It’s a sick place, and its sickness makes me sad. It makes me wonder how much malice is hiding beneath the surface of the people I deal with every day, and just how deep it goes. Lots and lots of malice. And it goes _very_ deep. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT leave your house. And whatever you do, DO NOT USE YOUR COMPUTER AGAIN!!! They WILL come and get you!! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/38 "2013-07-22T14:21:07Z")
I got yer malice right here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/39 "2013-07-22T14:22:27Z")
> [@Spud](#): > > Yeah, you haven’t been here long, but some of us have and we still vividly remember the spraying and shocks Some actually enjoyed it, too. That’s why they keep coming back - hoping for more. So what’s the OP’s excuse? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160/40 "2013-07-22T14:23:27Z")
> [@naita](#): > > No one is being whipped into conforming here. This isn’t a correctional facility. It’s a space for venting when the rules of rational debate are just to strict to let you say what you really mean about someone truly stupid. Quiet, you! _Squirt_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-this-place-reminds-me-of/664160.md?page=3)