Just to show I’m not completely off my rocker, I was thinking of this sort of stuff and these types of groupings when I originally posted. I meant “simple” vs “compound” meter where I wrote “duple” and “triple,” respectively. Although, as you say, 6/4 is usually a compound meter, wouldn’t it be described as simple in the examples given above?
In a clear simple grouping, such as the top right of those, I’d say it would be better indicated as 3/2. Although you’re right that there’s ambiguity, for example 3/8 can and is used variously as a single compound group or as simple triple.
I often chastise pupils for their lack of coffee intake when they come out with such answers 
If anyone’s also wanting an example of 12/8, here’s one. The conductor is beating the four dotted quarter-notes.
Having thought about the OP’s question, I’d say that I’m in favour of 6/4, as much as I can be without hearing the music in question. It’s the option that allows the first half of the pattern to be ‘1&2&3&’ as required, with an off-beat pattern in the second half of the bar.
This said, the purpose of the transcription may make this unsuitable, if it is by implication adding something to the non-western system which is not actually present, or if it is omitting significant elements. For example, if there isn’t actually an off-beat feel to the second half, 7/8 followed by 5/8 might have to be considered. On the other hand, if there is no clear priority of subdivisions to be heard, perhaps a text instruction to that effect might need to be added.
Please don’t forget, folks, that – theoretically – the time signature alone does not specify speed or groupings (triple, duple, whatever). 16/1 time doesn’t mean slower than 16/32, since the speed of a piece is not given by the primary note value. In piece #1, an eighth note might occupy more time in seconds than a whole note in piece #2.
Centuries ago, time sigs of 3/32, 4/16 or 3/2 were sometimes used. Over the years, sigs became more standardized and for regular meters at least, about all you run into now is 4/4, 2/2, 6/8, 12/8, or 3/4.
Also over the years, some sigs have taken on an auxiliary duty to indicate a sub-meter, especially in pop music. 4/4 is typically divided in two parts; 6/8 in 2 parts with a triplet feel, 3/4 into 3 parts, and 12/8 often substitutes for 4/4 with a triplet subdivision.
But it doesn’t have to be that way. Brubeck, besides introducing unusual counts, also subdivided some sigs in a non-standard manner. Example: 9/8, typically expressed as 3+3+3, was divided by Brubeck in Blue Rondo a la Turk as 2+2+2+3.
And just to twist it up a bit more, he did three measures of 2+2+2+3 and then one of 3+3+3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc34Uj8wlmE&feature=related
Could be…I’ve been spelling it Ahbahja, but that doesn’t mean anything spelling-wise. Phonetically, it’s Ah-bah-zhah. ‘Ah’ as in ah-ha, ‘bah’ as in bah-humbug, and ‘ja’ as in the first bit of Za-Za-Gabore. It’s a Fulani harvest rhythm.
The OP is the ‘Father’ phrase (four tones, then five basses)
Overlaid is:
‘Mother’:
six eighth notes and an eighth rest (two tones and four basses)
‘Sister’:
four eighth notes, no rests between phrases (two tones, two bass)
‘Brother’:
five eighths and an eighth rest (four tones and one bass)
Again, it’s taught orally, so I can’t vouch for my interpretation of the types of notes (eighth or otherwise). There’s also the bells and the djundjuns which, given that they are the center of the rhythm I really should start with those—but I don’t know them well enough to describe (though they’re very close to the father).
Oh, I don’t think an individual phrase would shift signature-wise in mid-stream.
I have an MP3 from a lesson I could upload if anyone can point me to an easy Youtube-like site for sound files.
I hope you can see why I’d want to find some way of writing these things down—but what’s the likelihood of trans-cribing/posing/ferring these into Western notation? Is it something someone with a rudimentary familiarity with the notation can do? Is it learnable as in learning basic HTML to put up simple Web pages, or learnable as in mastering PHP and SQL to create dynamic database-backed sites?
Thanks,
Rhythm
Don’t forget, the improv section was in jazz 4/4! It was quite a relief after the frenetic 9/8.
Maybe stick it into a Windows Moviemaker slide show with your choice of background picture, then upload it as an ordinary Youtube video?
Albeit an extremely boring one… 
I don’t think it’s necessarily correct to say that they’ve become ‘more standarised’, unless you’re looking at a rather restrictive cross-section of music. When a piece starts with a bar of 2/10, you’re in different territory…but I digress…
Allow me to indulge in a short history lesson 
…
Over the history of western music, there has been a general tendency towards the use of shorter and shorter note values. 13th century Franconian notation provided the maxima, longa, brevis and semibrevis, and the latter would evolve into the familiar breve/double-whole note and semibreve/whole note. By the 15th century, the brevis had become the largest commonly-used note value, still divided into either twos or threes, with the semibrevis also being divided in similar ways.
Later, the semibrevis/semibreve became dominant, and by the 18th century composers were happily using minims, crotchets and quavers as the dominant pulse in different movements of the same piece. Some 20th & 21st century composer consistently use a quaver pulse. While the notation of these did not inherent the flexibility of subdividing into either two or three, the rhythmic principles of this did continue, in the form of simple and compound metres.
All of this explains how the superficially simply task of transcribing non-western rhythms into western notation can quickly become very difficult. The metrical structures are not an abstract concept, but are a part of an ongoing tradition stemming back many centuries. Because of this, they bring with them a whole load of historical precedent, and tradition, which for example causes the difficulties encountered earlier with the implications of 6/4 and of 12/8.
And it’s not just metres that cause difficulty - different tuning systems, vocal inflections, ornamentations, use of varying pitches for single notes, all have caused ethnomusicologists to extend or alter western notation when attempting transcriptions.
How to tackle such transcriptions depends on whether you wish to preserve as much of the original as possible with no deliberate or unintentional alterations, additions or omissions, or whether you wish to take this music as a starting-point for something else (such as use as a basis for, or an element of, an original work?), in which case such changes may not matter so much.
I’d be willing to bet that at least 95% (probably more) of all the written music in my library is covered by those time sigs. While you might say my library is somehow biased, I never set out to collect works according to time sigs, nor have I concentrated on obscure works, and it’s a collection of classical, jazz, pop, rock, country, film scores and others accumulated over a lifetime.
So I’d say for the last 100 years at least, those sigs are pretty standardized, you bet.
Alternatively, who do you (RhythmDvl)envision reading your transcriptions and trying to play them back?
If the people you envision reading your transcriptions are primarily trained in Western Music, they may have trouble replicating the rhythms you are listening to, whether taught by listening or by reading your transcripts. So you may wish to make some decisions about the compromises that may be made or you may wish to try to transcribe things accurately and let the persons who later try to recreate the music make the compromises at that point.
I’m not really knowledgable enough to speak about this matter, but part of it comes back to the earlier question of whether there really were exactly 11 eightnotes per measure or whether there might be 12. 12 fits my ideas about standard (or Western) music and notation better, but 11 might well better represent the music. ETA:So writing it in 12/8 might make it easier for me to play and read, but might always sound a little stilted. Of course, writing it in 11/8 might mean I never try it at all, or it might still sound stilted, because I’m a (white) person with no rhythm.
My sense is that you don’t have enough knowledge of either standard Western music conventions or enough knowledge of the rhythms you wish to preserve to be a good transcriber. But I may not have enough knowledge of you, Western music conventions or the types of rhythms in question to make a good judgement.
Perhaps I was overstating it when I talked about a ‘rather restrictive cross-section of music’. However, I do still take issue with your statement that ‘about all you run into now is 4/4, 2/2, 6/8, 12/8, or 3/4’. Perhaps it would be fair to say that the majority of music could be transcribed with one of those signatures, but that’s not the same thing at all.
I knew you would.
If you are transcribing, you can use any damn sig you want and the music won’t sound any different if played. But you won’t make many friends by writing down a pop piece in 4/32 when it works fine in 4/4.
I’m talking about printed, contemporary, commercial music, whether for home market or professional studio use. Outside of some film scores or avant-garde classical, most music I have run into falls in the common list of sigs I mentioned.
When I was doing commercial takedowns, I could have used 8/4 or 4/8 for a typical pop tune, but I didn’t. Ever. Why? Because the most common sig of all, 4/4, suited most songs just fine, and that is what most people expect. I had no reason or desire to start a theoretical argument or confuse people, I was just writing it so it could be read.
Ok, I followed DDG’s suggestion (thanks!) and put together a Youtube clip with a handful of random pictures in a slideshow (bonus non-related question: can anyone ID the tree are the flowers came from?) It’s a shortish clip of the overall piece, taken earlier on in the learning curve.
Unfortunately I don’t yet have individual clips of each phrase, but most should be distinguishable. It’s likely that there are more than one time signature overlapping to make the whole, but the father part dominates. I’m in the process of categorizing and organizing a slew of sound files, and am trying to corral my teacher into a recording session or two to get individual phrases recorded.
That’s part of why I’m looking to do this. The audience may vary. First, there’s myself and people who I want to share these with. My notebook is filled with basic bass-tone-slap patterns, with little indication of what the actual rhythm is. I rely on my memory or sound clips (when I can make them) for that, but neither are a perfect solution. I have some rhythms that I last played ten to fifteen years ago, and I can’t tell whether I remember them right. Also, I do editorial and design work now, so harbor long-term ideas of publishing. Each rhythm has a story, purpose, and people behind it—many people just pick up the drum without knowing its history, or learn rhythms without knowing the provenance.
Eureka’s right in that I have a very limited sense of Western theory (hence the OP in the first place), but am wondering if this is something that can be self-taught. That is, if I already have a developed sense of timing, is putting a name and formula to a time signature something that goes far beyond basic music theory? I’m not looking to transpose Baroque harpsichord pieces to a New Orleans Oompah band, just get the basic rhythms captured with a standard convention.
On the other hand, given the subtle nuances of the various phrases is this likely to be an almost impossible task? That is, imagine trying to capture Sinatra’s timing and phrasing on paper. I don’t think that’s possible, but again, I don’t know enough about theory.
I’d probably try to do it in 6/4. But see this description of a similar pattern, which uses 12/8: Resultants in West African Music
My vote, for what it’s worth, is that transcribing the basic rhythms with a standard convention is possible, but the time signature is the least of your problems-- you need to investigate how other people write similar rhythms or perhaps rhythms for drums or percussion in general. No need to re-invent the wheel.
Subtle nuances? You probably can’t get those. Or if you can get them, you may find that what you have written is so complicated and intimidating, it doesn’t accomplish anything.
But transcribing the core of the rhythms? I don’t know why you wouldn’t be able to learn to do that.
On the other hand–I’ve certainly never tried to transcribe anything, so it may be trickier than I’m giving it credit for.
I would say that is a 6-beat pattern, repeated ad-nausem, and if you write it as a 6/4 measure, there is a strike on every eighth note.
I don’t feel it subdivides into 3+3 or 2+2+2, but a single, 6-beat phrase. Nothing falls on any other note values than eighths.
It seems very simple to me. Is this example causing you a problem notation-wise?
The dominant pattern starts 8-4-8-8-8… showing a slight syncopation in the first part of each bar.
Not a problem per se–it’s just a somewhat arbitrary rhythm I started with when wondering whether I could/could learn to transcribe. I jotted it down, got the eleven (er, twelve counting the rest) “notes,” dug deep into memory for how things are counted (1&2&… or 1-e-&-a, 2-e…) and saw what I came up with. I had no idea whether what I had made any sense at all or if I was even in the right ballpark.
If you plan to learn transcribing, I suggest you take different songs and practice beating them out. Where do you feel the primary “one” beat is? How many beats until a pattern repeats? (Not all rhythmic patterns are as repetitive as this one, but repeats are everywhere.) Can you subdivide the major beats, and if so, do they subdivide into twos or threes (or something else)?
If there is a longer pattern, like verse-chorus, how many smaller patterns does each one contain. In typical western pop music, an 8 bar phrase is common and 2 or 4 8-bar phrases often make one verse. In traditional blues, it’s a 12 bar phrase that makes up a verse (3 4-bar sub-phrases).
Don’t worry about time signatures, just the relationship between note values.
Hope this gives you a little to go on. In the example you gave, do you see that every strike, no matter which drummer played it, falls on one of 12 locations in the repeating pattern? And that the major beats are 6 per pattern? So if a quarter note is a major beat, an eighth note is a minor beat, and that’s all there is to it!
This is an important lesson. Many of my early (well, let’s face it, early *and * more recent) transcription efforts have been flawed by skipping this step. My first attempt at transcription was the song Fantasy, by Earth, Wind & Fire. It took me forever to get the bass line at the beginning right because I kept wanting to start it on the downbeat. That won’t work because it comes before one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf3loEhV0ZU
Its a 12/8 pattern
so in counting, using 12/8, going 123 234 323 423 (4 groups of 3 eight notes = 12/8) the bell pattern (which is the boss/time keeper in all of this music) is
1(2)32(2)3(3)23(4)2(3)
Bracketed numbers are rests