# What to bring to colonize a new planet? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2024, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055 "2024-12-23T08:36:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/121 "2024-12-30T01:10:41Z")
Because it grows so rapidly bamboo might be useful in a semi-closed cycle to reclaim air. Bamboo converts water and carbon dioxide into cellulose and spare oxygen; the bamboo is heated in the absence of oxygen to undergo pyrolysis, reduced to nearly pure charcoal and water vapor. With an external source of carbon dioxide like Mar’s atmosphere, the cycle effectively extracts oxygen from the CO2. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2024, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/122 "2024-12-30T01:39:54Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Plus, you can use it to fish for those strange mud things in the creek. Dopey Joes? Why would you want to hunt them; they taste terrible. Just ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/123 "2024-12-30T01:49:51Z")
Humans existed for hundreds of thousands of years without that kind of specialization. A midwife, a shaman, and you’re set up. All you need is the complete knowledge of every kind of plant, animal, mineral, on the ground, in the water, and in the air. Which gatherer/hunter societies had, for the biome they inhabited. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/124 "2024-12-30T20:45:13Z")
According to the historical documents, you just need to start with a rudimentary lathe… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/125 "2024-12-31T09:19:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if that turned out to be even more difficult than microchip fabs. I hate to sound like a stuck record, but [Minimal Fab is already a thing that exists](https://mavericktechno.com/minimal-fab.html), which can doubtless be further miniaturized as required. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/126 "2024-12-31T11:07:34Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It takes about 11 months to produce a foal after insemination. Any foal that’s too disproportionate to the mare’s size will likely get stuck and die during birth, also killing the dam. Any resulting fillies can’t be bred till they’re at least two, better three years old. Any colts born in the early rounds will be useless for breeding because of size and not much good for anything except pulling carts, perhaps carrying packs, and slaughter for meat and hides after carrying the useless foals for at least a year to get them big enough to use. So trying to build a herd by incrementally breeding for size from minis is less efficient than starting with mares that are at least 12 to 13 hands high. > > ETA: The Morgan gelding I owned was barely 15 hands (1 hand = 4 inches) yet he could easily carry his previous owner, a 6’2" guy. > > ETA2: Large pony or small horse mares can work while carrying their foals up to very close to foaling. alternatively … [![](https://i.redd.it/8e3go2pani851.jpg) ](https://i.redd.it/8e3go2pani851.jpg) [![](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/WeL47-YX9ftADCDM_VKZl-jKVygKz-1-wHl1vRIPkVQW84Xg-kQIOs2SSMm4lar2oHvm8U2PnZ2liVgbKBd6GMTfwyg6Vb3mfsuA5XDzoHa_cVQ6B4-VPO7XIIcOtbuf063m_83KVqkjNWw4ROQ2) ](https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/WeL47-YX9ftADCDM_VKZl-jKVygKz-1-wHl1vRIPkVQW84Xg-kQIOs2SSMm4lar2oHvm8U2PnZ2liVgbKBd6GMTfwyg6Vb3mfsuA5XDzoHa_cVQ6B4-VPO7XIIcOtbuf063m_83KVqkjNWw4ROQ2) [![](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2WXKPFR/american-soldier-in-belgium-sitting-in-a-cart-pulled-by-a-dog-ca-1918-1919-2WXKPFR.jpg) ](https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2WXKPFR/american-soldier-in-belgium-sitting-in-a-cart-pulled-by-a-dog-ca-1918-1919-2WXKPFR.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/127 "2024-12-31T18:47:40Z")
Yup, dogs can pull and carry, though not nearly as much weight as even small ponies, but you can’t milk or ride them. I, a full-grown adult, was once run away with at the trot by a Shetland pony. Those wee buggers are strong! OTOH, dogs big enough to haul stuff can guard and protect flocks and humans from predators – although donkeys can also watch over their herd and drive off predators. Also, crossing a donkey stud on horse mares produces mules, which are sterile but powerful workers. [Mammoth donkeys](https://breeds.okstate.edu/other-breeds-of-livestock/donkeys/mammoth-jack-stock-donkeys.html) are as big as some horses. So, livestock – bring or not? If so, what kind(s) and how? There’s really no way to answer those questions without knowing the tech to get them there, the tech and population levels of the colony, the biosphere of the new planet, and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/128 "2024-12-31T19:19:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I hate to sound like a stuck record, but [Minimal Fab is already a thing that exists](https://mavericktechno.com/minimal-fab.html), which can doubtless be further miniaturized as required. Those fabs must be producing a fairly primitive generation of chips. To produce the most advanced modern chips you need an insanely large, expensive, and high-tech laser that zaps 50,000 flying droplets of molten tin—twice—every second just to provide the 13.5 nm light to shine on the insanely complex mask that “consists of 40–50 alternating silicon and molybdenum layers”. It makes a rocket engine look like a tinkertoy. > **[Good things come in ever-smaller packages](https://www.trumpf.com/en_US/products/lasers/euv-drive-laser/)** > > With the TRUMPF Laser Amplifier, ever-smaller and more powerful EUV-exposed microchips can be produced for the digital ambitions of the future. > **[Extreme ultraviolet lithography](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_ultraviolet_lithography)** > > Extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUVL, also known simply as EUV) is a technology used in the semiconductor industry for manufacturing integrated circuits (ICs). It is a type of photolithography that uses 13.5 nm extreme ultraviolet (EUV) light from a laser-pulsed tin (Sn) plasma to create intricate patterns on semiconductor substrates. > As of 2023\[update\], ASML Holding is the only company that produces and sells EUV systems for chip production, targeting 5 nanometer (nm) and 3 nm process nodes. > ... ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/129 "2024-12-31T19:32:09Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > To produce the most advanced modern chips This is the mindset that will never let you colonize anything, ever. You don’t need the most advanced chips, you need _good enough_. We went to the Moon with 4k of memory, I’m pretty sure we can replicate a mid-1800s to early 1900s level of technology with that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/130 "2024-12-31T20:18:28Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Those fabs must be producing a fairly primitive generation of chips. No, what they produce is _very small runs_ of chips. But they can do all the doping and repeat layering of other chip fabs. Just at smaller volumes. Not the bleeding-edge chips, but not 90s tech, either. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnyEcks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnnyecks/32/18197_2.png) [@JohnnyEcks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnyEcks)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/131 "2024-12-31T21:04:02Z")
Why…. Why are we making chips? What for? What will they be used in? We need to clear land and start growing crops before our supplies run out. We need to build homes and dig wells for the farmers, (did we bring a sawmill and well borer?) and work out a storage and distribution system- roads, I guess? We need those farms electrified, to act as a labor multiplier so that our limited population can be used for multiple projects. We need a copper mine and smelting operation and a wire drawing plant, and of course a chemical industry to provide inputs for the two, as well as make the needed insulation for the wires. To make the chemicals, we will need to drill for oil- assuming the planet has any. Of course, to build any of that, we’ll need an iron mine and ore refinery, steel mill, concrete plant and related industries, power for them…. That chip fab is going to be in deep storage for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/132 "2024-12-31T21:52:33Z")
> [@JohnnyEcks](#): > > Why are we making chips? What for? What will they be used Well, PV electricity for one thing. That plus all the controllers for our hydroponic gardens, our robots, our various other autonomous systems… Were you thinking we’d revert to a three-field system and what, vacuum tubes for your electrification project? When we’d travelled the stars? What would be the point? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/133 "2024-12-31T22:47:10Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > There’s so much involved in building a generation ship with any decent chance at all of success that we’ll have learned a whole lot about living in space, building stations that are as close to self-supporting as we can, mining asteroids for materials, and in-space manufacturing. All of that would be applied to a generation ship, and I’d expect them to start setting up an in-space civilization once they arrive. No need to learn to deal with a novel biosphere right away, just replicate the systems we have in Sol. > > I’m sure someone would set up on the planet eventually, even if just as a Disneyland resort kind of thing. But the main civilization will live in space. By the time they get there, their society will be a space-based society. This. The very first thing the colonists would bring with them would be the self-sustaining starship that brought them there, and in which they could continue to thrive for decades after arrival. Unless of course you’re postulating that the colonization is done by one-way teleportation and that it’s too difficult or expensive to do it more than once per planet. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/134 "2024-12-31T22:53:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That plus all the controllers for our hydroponic gardens, our robots, our various other autonomous systems… We don’t even need to get that fancy. Computers for communication, record keeping, and digital books would all be beneficial, even if we’re aiming for 1860s tech elsewhere. Even an old Apple IIe would make a huge difference. Simple computers wouldn’t be a luxury, we’d be using them for practical work almost every day. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/135 "2024-12-31T23:05:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I hate to sound like a stuck record, but [Minimal Fab is already a thing that exists](https://mavericktechno.com/minimal-fab.html), which can doubtless be further miniaturized as required. Wow, that site is incredibly vague, but it looks like they’re starting with blank wafers, and they also say that customers can buy all of the required chemicals from them. Which means that that’s not a complete fabbery. What do you need in order to get from sand to wafers, and how are all of those other chemicals produced? ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/136 "2024-12-31T23:05:41Z")
There would need to be a very large library of ‘how-to’ tutorial videos on file, as well as sound-only instruction manuals so you can follow detailed instructions while looking at the workpiece. Every colony ship would need as big a fraction of the British Library collection or the Library of congress (or its multinational equivalent) as possible, but the most important part of the library would be skill tutorials and cheat sheets. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/137 "2024-12-31T23:12:29Z")
Eh, as long as we bring a few good, reliable computers with us, it’s easy to pack all of the instructional videos you’d ever want, and all of the text instructions, and pretty much whatever other information you’d want. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/138 "2024-12-31T23:29:44Z")
Yeah, but video is pretty data-expensive, and you need some way of displaying it too.Smartphones seem a bit small for tutorial videos, so some kind of laptop system would be bigger and better. And the laptops would need to be robust, and if possible, replicable. Prospecting technology would be important too. The most important activity on a new world would be locating sources of minerals required for high-tech equipment - rare earths and so on. Maybe. by the time we get to the stars, just about every piece of high technology we need will be constructable from carbon, hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen, plus a few trace elements - biotech laptops and other processing systems, and even biotech heavy machinery. So we might not need rare earths. But if we do, we would need to find ways of analysing and decoding the geological history and the composition of the planets we land on (and the asteroids that surround them), to determine where the best ores can be found. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2024, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/139 "2024-12-31T23:32:06Z")
Heck if you’re worried about being able to maintain your tech levels you could put all the instructional books and diagrams on microfilm, which in it’s simplest form could be read with [a handheld viewer using ambient light.](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/1551376770610-C97ECTG8KR26S1JUK47R/image-asset.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055/140 "2025-01-01T07:44:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wow, that site is incredibly vague, but it looks like they’re starting with blank wafers, and they also say that customers can buy all of the required chemicals from them. If a starship doesn’t have the tech to melt stuff or produce chemicals, it’s not going to get to another planet in the first place. > [@Chronos](#): > > Which means that that’s not a complete fabbery. It’s a complete replacement for an entire chip fab, which nowadays runs to millions of square feet of cleanrooms etc, in a 10mx10m room.The mega-fabs don’t all make their own wafers either. > [@Chronos](#): > > What do you need in order to get from sand to wafers Making wafers isn’t _that_ hard either, say another 10mx10m room for that, when you’re talking growing one 1/2-inch crystal at a time. A single Czochralski puller needn’t take up more than a 3x3 cleanroom corner of that space, leaving lots of room for support and processing. Part of that being a gas chamber for doping. Lasers for cutting, grinders and polishers for surfacing… The geology lab at my Uni does that kind of work in a very similar size space. We don’t need cleanrooms when we’re just melting rocks or prepping slides, but that’s hardly an issue. > [@Chronos](#): > > how are all of those other chemicals produced? Same way they’re going to be making fertilizer, and fuel, and medicines - a colony without a robust chemicals lab isn’t going to survive very long, is it? Of course, you’d want to start off with stocks of at least the most essential ones (and for chip doping, we’re not talking _tons_ of stuff, anyway). But acids and the like aren’t that hard to make in a decent lab. It’s some of the dopants that would be hard as they’re often rarer elements, but that’s a factor in what chips you design, not an absolute blocker. And some of the better dopants, like gallium or indium, are by-products of other essential metals production, like aluminium, zinc or tin, or else minerals you’re going to want anyway, like boron from borax. An equivalent-technological colony would need to spend most of its human capital on these kinds of things, not growing fields of wheat walking behind a Clydesdale. BTW, that reminds me - from a jumpstart point of view, the OP’s suggestion of a temperate forest is terrible, they’re the worst place to get many of the resources I’d think any colony would need. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-bring-to-colonize-a-new-planet/1012055.md?page=8)