# What to do about the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456 "2020-06-11T14:55:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/21 "2020-06-11T23:06:33Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’ll be Lord of the Flies combined with Idiocracy in a month if left alone. So, the West Coast version of the Trump administration? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/22 "2020-06-12T00:40:36Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/11/us/seattle-police-autonomous-zone/index.html](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/11/us/seattle-police-autonomous-zone/index.html) > > This is the report from CNN. The claims made in the article of barricades/ checkpoints are made by Deanna Nollette, Seatle’s Assistant Police Chief. And I’ve been told by people who actually live in or around the area that the police and/or media are exaggerating or lying with those claims, so take it as you will. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/23 "2020-06-12T01:59:05Z")
My daughters have been going every day. It’s pretty much a big picnic, lots of families, old people, etc. The graffiti is being turned into murals. You can pull up SnapChat and look for the map of Seattle. Pull up Cal Anderson Park realtime video postings. The only time weapons were involved was when rumors were spread that right-wingers were coming with assault weapons. That ended awhile ago. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/24 "2020-06-12T04:16:39Z")
Lots of misinformation out there - here’s a correction in the [Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-protests-updates-for-thursday-june-11/#update-12846417) today: > [@](#): > > The Seattle Police Department walked back its claim, widely repeated in the news media, that denizens of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone are extorting businesses. > > “That has not happened affirmatively,” Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best in a news conference Thursday afternoon, adding that the police department had based earlier claims on anecdotal reports, including in the news and on social media. “We haven’t had any formal reports of this occurring.” > > That contradicts earlier statements from the police. > > In a news conference Wednesday, Assistant Seattle Police Chief Deanna Nollette said police have heard from Capitol Hill community members that some protesters have asked business owners to pay a fee to operate in a roughly six-block area around the precinct. Best repeated the claim in a video address to officers Thursday morning. > > The police narrative rang false to many in the Capitol Hill business community. Restaurant owners said they hadn’t heard any reports of extortion in the Autonomous Zone. On the contrary: Sales are strong and the increase in walk-up business is cutting down on delivery costs. > > “This protest has not hurt us at all,” said Bok a Bok Chicken co-owner Brian O’Connor. When he came to the Autonomous Zone Wednesday, rather than extortion, he said he was met with an offer of a free bagel-and-cheese sandwich. > > The claim seems to have gained traction after it was published in conservative blog The Post Millennial, in an article written by former Seattle City Council candidate Ari Hoffman. The article quoted unnamed police officers who alleged protesters were extorting businesses for protection money. Hoffman said his sources were “rock solid” and that he had first heard of the alleged extortion on conservative talk radio station AM 770 KTTH. > > The claim was later repeated by a commenter under the name “Marcus S.” on the Capitol Hill Seattle blog, and in a tweet by Andy Ngo, editor-at-large of The Post Millennial. > > Apart from those sources, Christina Arrington, who heads the Capitol Hill branch of the Greater Seattle Business Association, said she has had “no other indications that this is taking place.” The GSBA “found no evidence of this occurring,” the group tweeted, based on conversations with area business. > > The Seattle Times, among other local news outlets, repeated Nollette’s claims that the police had received reports of extortion from community members. Note that Andy Ngo, currently of the Post Millennial, where this report was put forth, is a discredited right-wing agitator well known for faked videos. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/25 "2020-06-12T04:17:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Today’s entry in “Cyberpunk is real life:” There’s a Seattle Autonomous Zone. I expect Trump to decant a few vat-grown ninjas to take care of things. Leave it to him to declare a thumb war. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/26 "2020-06-12T04:30:34Z")
[For what it’s worth, a local station that spent 6 hours inside the zone saw no checkpoints or weapons.](https://komonews.com/news/local/police-make-allegations-of-intimidation-extortion-inside-capitol-hills-autonomous-zone) And note the officer making the accusations refused to answer any questions. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/27 "2020-06-12T05:07:16Z")
The Seattle Police Department is now walking back its extortion allegations. From the Seattle Times’ protest coverage blog: > [@](#): > > The Seattle Police Department walked back its claim, widely repeated in the news media, that denizens of the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone are extorting businesses. > > “That has not happened affirmatively,” Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best in a news conference Thursday afternoon, adding that the police department had based earlier claims on anecdotal reports, including in the news and on social media. “We haven’t had any formal reports of this occurring.” > > That contradicts earlier statements from the police. > > In a news conference Wednesday, Assistant Seattle Police Chief Deanna Nollette said police have heard from Capitol Hill community members that some protesters have asked business owners to pay a fee to operate in a roughly six-block area around the precinct. Best repeated the claim in a video address to officers Thursday morning. > > The police narrative rang false to many in the Capitol Hill business community. Restaurant owners said they hadn’t heard any reports of extortion in the Autonomous Zone. On the contrary: Sales are strong and the increase in walk-up business is cutting down on delivery costs. > > “This protest has not hurt us at all,” said Bok a Bok Chicken co-owner Brian O’Connor. When he came to the Autonomous Zone Wednesday, rather than extortion, he said he was met with an offer of a free bagel-and-cheese sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/28 "2020-06-12T05:17:14Z")
^^ Pssst - see post #24… ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/29 "2020-06-12T11:08:16Z")
> **[Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, Where Protesters Run the Streets](https://www.newsweek.com/seattle-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-chaz-protests-1510141#slideshow/1598838)** > > A section of the city has been occupied by demonstrators, after a police precinct was vacated amid protests. This is a photo of what seems to be an armed checkpoint, something which I believe is against the law. The left needs to stop making excuses for this stuff. There are a lot of armed people in the US, all over the political spectrum. If even a tiny fraction starts taking the law into their own hands there will be chaos. What happens for example if anti-abortion extremists create an “autonomous zone” around an abortion clinic? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/30 "2020-06-12T11:31:32Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > This is a photo of what seems to be an armed checkpoint, something which I believe is against the law. The left needs to stop making excuses for this stuff. Excuses for what, a law-abiding gun owner exercising his 2nd Amendment rights? An American Citizen using his rights to protect his property and neighbors from government tyranny? If you don’t like the idea of Americans putting on body armor and walking the streets with semi-automatic rifles, I could support laws to prevent that from happening. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/31 "2020-06-12T11:35:56Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > This is a photo of what seems to be an armed checkpoint, something which I believe is against the law. The left needs to stop making excuses for this stuff. There are very fine people on both sides, OK? LIBERATE CAPITAL HILL! ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/32 "2020-06-12T11:48:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Excuses for what, a law-abiding gun owner exercising his 2nd Amendment rights? An American Citizen using his rights to protect his property and neighbors from government tyranny? > > If you don’t like the idea of Americans putting on body armor and walking the streets with semi-automatic rifles, I could support laws to prevent that from happening. You can walk around with a gun in an open carry state. You can’t set up an armed checkpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/33 "2020-06-12T12:18:21Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > You can walk around with a gun in an open carry state. You can’t set up an armed checkpoint. I’m sorry, I thought the 2nd A was intended as a check for government tyranny rather than the right to decorate yourself during your oppression. Good to know. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/34 "2020-06-12T12:32:07Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’ll be Lord of the Flies combined with Idiocracy in a month if left alone. So if that’s true, why not just let them be? You’ll be proven right for once. I’m willing to run that experiment. Are you? > [@needscoffee](#): > > Lots of misinformation out there - here’s a correction in the [Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/seattle-area-protests-updates-for-thursday-june-11/#update-12846417) today: > > Note that Andy Ngo, currently of the Post Millennial, where this report was put forth, is a discredited right-wing agitator well known for faked videos. And that’s a good lesson about _real_ “fake news”. Bullshit tends to fall apart when you look at it. > [@Lantern](#): > > You can walk around with a gun in an open carry state. You can’t set up an armed checkpoint. What in that photo constitutes a “checkpoint”? It’s a photo of a guy holding a rifle. He’s not questioning anyone, checking papers, or any such things. The people around him all seem to be just chilling out. There’s no barriers or fences, nothing that you’d use at an actual checkpoint. It’s just some guy standing in the street. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/35 "2020-06-12T12:37:24Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > [Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, Where Protesters Have Taken Control of the Streets](https://www.newsweek.com/seattle-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-chaz-protests-1510141#slideshow/1598838) > > This is a photo of what seems to be an armed checkpoint, something which I believe is against the law. Correction: it shows a guy with a rifle leaning on a car. We don’t know what he’s doing or what it means. Anyway, I don’t recall all this hand-wringing when actual mobs of open-carry nuts protested the COVID lockdown on the steps of actual capitol buildings. > [@](#): > > The left needs to stop making excuses for this stuff. There are a lot of armed people in the US, all over the political spectrum. If even a tiny fraction starts taking the law into their own hands there will be chaos. What happens for example if anti-abortion extremists create an “autonomous zone” around an abortion clinic? IF we believe the reports from the Seattle autonomous zone, no businesses are being disrupted or impeded. Residents are only occupying their own property, people are free to come and go. Life is going on as normal, except the community is policing itself. This may change at some point, but it seems fine for now. Flip the narrative on its head and think about it… if a certain zone of people is eligible for city/state police coverage, but has expressed that they don’t want it, and they never call 911 for crime assistance, what business do the police have there? It seems like some people are mainly disturbed by the fact that the police are not free to go where they want and do whatever they want. That’s very telling. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/36 "2020-06-12T12:48:14Z")
The caption says he is working security at an entrance and the picture is certainly consistent with that. There are actually anecdotal reports of businesses being harassed for money; the police have only said that there are no “formal reports”. It’s hard to see how it is even possible to file formal reports given that the police are not allowed in. These are public streets. Of course the police should be free to go there. I don’t know what you mean by the “community” policing itself. There are a bunch of armed people doing the policing. How do you know they represent the community? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/37 "2020-06-12T13:12:14Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > It’s hard to see how it is even possible to file formal reports given that the police are not allowed in. People are free to leave the area and go to any other police station in the city to file a formal complaint. > [@](#): > > I don’t know what you mean by the “community” policing itself. There are a bunch of armed people doing the policing. How do you know they represent the community? Ask yourself the same question of the other bunch of armed people who were “representing the community” so well that the people they were policing threatened to burn down their base of operations and posted armed guards to keep them away. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/38 "2020-06-12T13:39:01Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > There are actually anecdotal reports of businesses being harassed for money; the police have only said that there are no “formal reports”. We’ve posted twice articles that no business owner could be found that made these claims, and if anything many of them are backing the protest. If you don’t want to accept accounts of people actually in the zone, what will you accept. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/39 "2020-06-12T13:42:13Z")
Again do you have any evidence that those who threatened to burn down the station represent the “people”. Let me give you some basic truths about life which you perhaps are not yet aware of. Just because a group call itself “antifa” doesn’t make it anti-fascist. Just because a bunch of armed thugs say they represent the people doesn’t mean they do. Just because a country calls itself the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea doesn’t mean it’s democratic. BTW here is the Seattle police chief: > [@](#): > > “Our calls for service have more than tripled,” she told reporters. “These are responses to emergency calls — rapes, robberies, and all sorts of violent acts that have been occurring in the area that we’re not able to get to.” So apparently there are crimes being committed which the police has not been able to respond to. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/40 "2020-06-12T13:45:19Z")
I don’t know what should be done, but ideally it should happen _after_ Sean Hannity’s aneurysm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456.md?page=3)