# What to do about the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456 "2020-06-11T14:55:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/81 "2020-06-12T20:17:28Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > How Trump and the Senate got there is entirely the point. They were elected and the American people will soon have a chance to un-elect them which is why the comparison with George the Third is utterly absurd. You may be in complete denial about the many problems with the american electoral system, but I’m not, and arguments that ignore them are unpersuasive to me. Plus I don’t think that the “wait until he’s gone and maybe then next guy will be better” argument is that persuasive to people who are angry about systemic problems that have been going on since long before Trump’s election. > [@](#): > > Oh and you might want to learn how to spell ad hominem and also what it means. Man with nothing continues to rely on substanceless attacks, film at eleven. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/82 "2020-06-12T20:17:49Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > With the huge difference that King George was an unelected monarch and Trump and the Republican senate are elected. Also not everyone agrees as to what is a good law or not which is kind of the point of democracy. Well, the point of a democracy is to figure out who is doing better about dealing with the point of the peaceful protests. Or, if they are ignoring it and making things worse. (A video timeline of the crackdown on protesters by the police before Trump’s asinine photo op) Vote them out and reform the police. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/83 "2020-06-12T20:22:52Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Man with nothing continues to rely on substanceless attacks, film at eleven. OK. Educate me: what is an ad homenem argument ? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/84 "2020-06-12T20:29:45Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > OK. Educate me: what is an ad homenem argument ? Educate me why I should follow you down this irrelevant tangent? Your fallacious dismissal of his solid argument won’t get any more correct, even if you somehow convince me that your pedantry in your erroneousness is admirable. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/85 "2020-06-12T20:36:17Z")
OK. Let me educate you then. Calling something a delusional rant is not an ad hominem attack. > [@begbert2](#): > > Man with nothing continues to rely on substanceless attacks, film at eleven. \*\*This \*\*is an ad hominem attack and a rather foolish one. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/86 "2020-06-12T20:41:03Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > OK. Let me educate you then. Calling something a delusional rant is not an ad hominem attack. > \*\*This \*\*is an ad hominem attack and a rather foolish one. Good god, are we really doing this? Fine. One more post about this idiotic bullshit tangent. “Man with nothing” is a statement about _the arguments you’ve brought_. That’s the nothing. Your arguments on this subject, collectively. It’s a statement about the quality of your collective argumentation. It is no more an ad hominem than your “delusional rant” crack - in fact the primary difference is that your assertion(s) regarding his post being “delusional” and a “rant” were _wrong_. [/stupid hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/87 "2020-06-12T20:50:39Z")
Enough. Everyone that tangent is over. This thread is on zero tolerance for any further nonsense of any kind. Best behavior only. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/88 "2020-06-12T20:52:00Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > **It requires votes** in both the House and Senate and the President’s signature. Just because the House has passed laws which you personally like and the Senate blocks them doesn’t justify a revolution. That is just how the US constitution works. > [@begbert2](#): > > I assume you realize you’re utterly failing to refute his point. The complaint about King George is that he was blocking good laws. The Trump team blocks good laws. Yes, they do it in accordance with the powers granted them by their position. So did King George. > > So yeah utter failure to dispute his point. Well, aside from that cute little ad-homenem “delusional rant”, which I choose to read as your admission that you really can’t refute anything in it. Actually, his point is even worse than that, because he actually knows what the problem is, but is completely oblivious to it. Yes, it requires **votes** in the Senate. But almost no votes are even taking place, because Moscow Mitch has [unilaterally decided that he simply won’t schedule any votes on hundreds of pieces of legislation](https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/in-senator-mitch-mcconnells-legislative-graveyard-senate-republicans-block-commonsense-legislation-to-secure-our-elections-protect-americans-health-care-and-safeguard-pensions-earned-by-working-americans), period. That’s not something the “American people” voted for. It is one man hijacking the rules of procedure to advance his own agenda at the expense of the American people. For someone who claims to care about the “fundamental principles of liberal democracy” to ignore one of the most tyrannical people the Senate has ever seen is…odd. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/89 "2020-06-12T20:53:15Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Enough. > > Everyone that tangent is over. This thread is on zero tolerance for any further nonsense of any kind. Best behavior only. Sorry, cross-posted. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/90 "2020-06-12T20:54:48Z")
Deleted ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/91 "2020-06-12T21:41:10Z")
FWIW, a report from Seattle a FB friend posted this morning. > [@](#): > > For my friends outside of Seattle… my son has been down there (this is a few blocks in a Seattle neighborhood outside of downtown) and has been listening to speeches, planting community gardens, and playing hacky sack (sp), making art, the community rules are clear art is only on the plywood. So… yeah a little bit more of a summer of love vibe than burning or pillaging or “death”. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/92 "2020-06-12T22:39:32Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > And you know this how? Did someone take a vote ? And you know otherwise, how? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/93 "2020-06-13T03:10:38Z")
I wonder, dont the people doing this have jobs, families, or other responsibilities? I mean are they telling their boss “sorry, I need time off to man a barricade” or something like that? Also who will now be willing to open a business down there when you really dont know when this will happen again? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/94 "2020-06-13T04:45:25Z")
I live in the area, and have colleagues that live in CHAZ. It’s pretty much a party and not a Maoist “soviet” autonomous region. Employers here are pretty supportive actually. But feel free to suck at the teat of right wing media propoganda. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/95 "2020-06-13T04:53:31Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I wonder, dont the people doing this have jobs, families, or other responsibilities? I mean are they telling their boss “sorry, I need time off to man a barricade” or something like that? > > Also who will now be willing to open a business down there when you really dont know when this will happen again? My daughters go after work every day. Its nothing like what you’re imagining from right wing media. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/96 "2020-06-13T05:02:39Z")
If Fox News thinks this is some sort of terrorist occupation, just _wait_ until someone tells them about Burning Man. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/97 "2020-06-13T06:02:28Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I live in the area, and have colleagues that live in CHAZ. > > It’s pretty much a party and not a Maoist “soviet” autonomous region. > > Employers here are pretty supportive actually. > > But feel free to suck at the teat of right wing media propoganda. Speaking of the teat of right-wing media: [_Fox News runs digitally altered images in coverage of Seattle’s protests, Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone_](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_inset_1.1) Reporting by _The Seattle Times_. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/98 "2020-06-13T07:02:03Z")
I live very close to (though not in) CHAZ. The media reports are overblown. It was definitely quieter and calmer now that the police are not escalating the violence and attacking citizens every night. As far as the police reports about response times - they’ve been caught being less than truthful quite frequently for the past few weeks. There are two other precincts within walking distance of the one in question (you could do a loop of all three of them in under an hour). This isn’t a rural area where the next closest police station is 20 miles away. I find it questionable that response times have gone up as much as they’re claiming. FWIW - this is the same neighborhood that [Bloomberg was/is profiling in a series about how the coronavirus closures were affecting neighborhoods.](https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-one-year-one-neighborhood/) It’ll be interesting to see what their next update looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/99 "2020-06-13T16:29:38Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I live in the area, and have colleagues that live in CHAZ. > > It’s pretty much a party and not a Maoist “soviet” autonomous region. > > Employers here are pretty supportive actually. > > But feel free to suck at the teat of right wing media propoganda. Ok, educate us. Your right I have heard 2 extremes, so the truth should be somewhere in the middle. If I wanted to go to a restaurant down there, would they allow my through? Are cars allowed? Are they checking ID of people going in or out? Are they allowing all news media in to take pictures and not just CNN? Have been businesses like coffee shops been forced to give out free product? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/100 "2020-06-13T17:17:16Z")
Why does the truth have to be somewhere in the middle? Is that like some law? Is the truth somewhere in the middle between flat earthers and everyone else? Is it somewhere in the middle between Holocaust Denial and historians? In this thread, you have people who have been there or know someone who has, and they say it’s basically a chill party. On the other hand, you have Fox News photoshopping pictures so that it looks like a terrorist insurgency. Hmmm, I wonder where the truth lies… The police have already been caught in a lie about protection rackets. Let me see, who do I trust more… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456.md?page=6)