# What to do about the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 11, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456 "2020-06-11T14:55:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/101 "2020-06-13T18:01:57Z")
I have some Seattlean (Seattlite?) Facebook friends who have been in. Their reports include not needing id to get in, media is treated well, and businesses are open. There are complaints that it is turning into a block party rather than a political protest. At least two of those friends are Libertarian, though they are further left that that usually implies. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/102 "2020-06-13T18:07:57Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ok, educate us. Your right I have heard 2 extremes, so the truth should be somewhere in the middle. > > If I wanted to go to a restaurant down there, would they allow my through? > > Are cars allowed? > > Are they checking ID of people going in or out? > > Are they allowing all news media in to take pictures and not just CNN? > > Have been businesses like coffee shops been forced to give out free product? My daughters have gone every day. No IDs are needed or requested. Anybody can come and go. No businesses are forced to give out free product - Wtf? Barriers are easily stepped over or around, they’re to keep cars from driving over people. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/103 "2020-06-13T18:12:58Z")
> But all white people have to give $10 to a black person!! ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/104 "2020-06-13T18:22:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > [https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1271709379688087555?s=20](https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1271709379688087555?s=20) > > But all white people have to give $10 to a black person!! The sad thing about CHAT is that they have diverted and hijacked attention away from the BLM movement. Now its about a bunch of white and Latino anarchist types who have their own agenda. And, as mentioned above, protest fatigue is giving way to partying. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/105 "2020-06-13T18:29:56Z")
Faked photo of armed ID checker at CHAZ from Fox: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/) ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/106 "2020-06-13T18:39:33Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Faked photo of armed ID checker at CHAZ from Fox: [https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/) That guy from **Lantern** ’s post gets around. > [@Lantern](#): > > [Seattle's Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, Where Protesters Have Taken Control of the Streets](https://www.newsweek.com/seattle-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone-chaz-protests-1510141#slideshow/1598838) > > This is a photo of what seems to be an armed checkpoint, something which I believe is against the law. The left needs to stop making excuses for this stuff. There are a lot of armed people in the US, all over the political spectrum. If even a tiny fraction starts taking the law into their own hands there will be chaos. What happens for example if anti-abortion extremists create an “autonomous zone” around an abortion clinic? ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/107 "2020-06-13T18:47:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > [https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1271709379688087555?s=20](https://twitter.com/FromKalen/status/1271709379688087555?s=20) > > But all white people have to give $10 to a black person!! I’m not sure if you are making fun of the tweeter or not, but the guy in the video is not forcing, or proposing to force white people to give $10 to black people. Charitably, he is suggesting that ending police racism and/or other racism will cost white people more than $10, so they should consider how that feels and to make peace with it. Even an uncharitable interpretation would see that he is suggesting white people give $10 voluntarily. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/108 "2020-06-13T18:49:04Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ok, educate us. Your right I have heard 2 extremes, so the truth should be somewhere in the middle. > > If I wanted to go to a restaurant down there, would they allow my through? > > Are cars allowed? > > Are they checking ID of people going in or out? > > Are they allowing all news media in to take pictures and not just CNN? > > Have been businesses like coffee shops been forced to give out free product? One thing - his sources are people who have been there. Yours are questionable “news media.” There’s a false equivalence between what you’ve both heard. But to answer some of your questions, from my personal knowledge- Most of the restaurants are closed or barely open due to coronavirus restrictions. There’s a pandemic going on. (See the article I linked to above). But takeout and delivery are still available from the restaurants that were dong takeout and delivery before. No checking ID. No one is forced to give out free products. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/109 "2020-06-13T19:08:12Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > I’m not sure if you are making fun of the tweeter or not, but the guy in the video is not forcing, or proposing to force white people to give $10 to black people. Charitably, he is suggesting that ending police racism and/or other racism will cost white people more than $10, so they should consider how that feels and to make peace with it. Even an uncharitable interpretation would see that he is suggesting white people give $10 voluntarily. “In the future are you going to give up power and land and capital when you have it? If you have a hard time giving up $10 are you really down with this struggle? Are you down with the movement? …if that is a struggle for you then Im not sure you are in the right place. So find an African-American person…and white people, I see you I see you and every single one of you and I remember your faces you find that African American person and you give them $10 cash Venmo from your pocket. That is my challenge to you. Do it.” He seems to me to be suggesting wealth transfer and it doesnt have anything to do with racism. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/110 "2020-06-13T21:34:39Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > “In the future are you going to give up power and land and capital when you have it? If you have a hard time giving up $10 are you really down with this struggle? Are you down with the movement? …if that is a struggle for you then Im not sure you are in the right place. So find an African-American person…and white people, I see you I see you and every single one of you and I remember your faces you find that African American person and you give them $10 cash Venmo from your pocket. That is my challenge to you. Do it.” > > He seems to me to be suggesting wealth transfer and it doesnt have anything to do with racism. Oh come on. I hear a much harder sales pitch in church as the collection plate is passed around. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2020, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/111 "2020-06-13T22:29:58Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > In this thread, you have people who have been there or know someone who has, and they say it’s basically a chill party. [They do _not_ like it to be called that](https://www.rawstory.com/2020/06/protester-and-msnbc-reporter-clash-on-live-tv-over-whether-protests-are-just-a-street-festival/). As for free food, I’ve read something about charging $6.00 for a hot dog, so that’s the _real_ crime there. Around here $6.00 will get you a hot dog plus a side-order of 3 or 4 hot dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Chopsticks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cab0a1/32.png) [@Chopsticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopsticks)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/112 "2020-06-14T01:14:30Z")
Darn. I thought this was about the Capitol Hill on the other coast driving out people trying to peacefully exercise free speech rights. Area taken over by a group not following US law etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/113 "2020-06-14T03:11:46Z")
Actually their seem to be alot of people blogging about this who live inside. All things seem to be pretty calm and peaceful. It looks like the mayor of Seattle visited. If you have personal sources please keep us informed. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/114 "2020-06-14T07:41:04Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > They were cited by name in this very thread: > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22350563&postcount=24](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22350563&postcount=24) > > " “This protest has not hurt us at all,” said Bok a Bok Chicken co-owner Brian O’Connor." > > " Christina Arrington, who heads the Capitol Hill branch of the Greater Seattle Business Association, said she has had “no other indications that this is taking place.” The GSBA “found no evidence of this occurring,” the group tweeted, based on conversations with area business." > > Two regular business people, one of whom heads a local organization of such people, who are under no apparent coercion, and who are in a position to have a much better sense of what’s really going on there than anyone in this thread, both think things are fine. > Typical false equivalence. The Tea Partiers had nothing but stupid right-wing bullshit to support their claims. In contrast, these protestors have multiple examples, on video, of police overstepping the bounds, and literally murdering people, amongst a hos tof lesser abuses. And this has been going on for years, with no substantial actions taken to fix the problem. > If the vast majority of the citizens in that area agreed with them, and actively supported them, and there were no substantiated reports of harm or harassment of the few people who didn’t actively support them, then yeah, I would support them. > > Of course, based on the example you used, of an abortion clinic, even you tacitly admit that the criteria of “no substantiated reports of harm or harassment” is virtually impossible to believe would actually occur. Harassment, after all, is the whole point of protests at abortion clinics. > > And again you raise a false equivalence. > > I’ll admit, I actually _am_ souring on “the principles of liberal democracy”, largely because of the unrelenting Republican attacks on democracy wherever and whenever they can get their hands on enough power to do so. I’d be all for a free and fair election, if such were possible, but the Republicans have made such a free and fair election damn near impossible at this point. Just look at the shit-show that was Georgia, just this week. > > This is how the right wants to play the game these days. Don’t fault the left for finally saying, “Fine, fuck it, we’ll do it _your_ way, fuckers.” Thank you, **Horatius**. I love this post. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/115 "2020-06-14T12:57:20Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He seems to me to be suggesting wealth transfer and it doesnt have anything to do with racism. You might freak out a little bit when I tell you about things called “fund-raising telethons”, but they happen on TV at night and just go around asking people to transfer funds willy-nilly, completely regardless of racism. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2020, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/116 "2020-06-14T17:48:36Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You might freak out a little bit when I tell you about things called “fund-raising telethons”, but they happen on TV at night and just go around asking people to transfer funds willy-nilly, completely regardless of racism. And, if that’s your definition of extortion, then I’ve been getting extortion letters in the mail from Melania Trump and the RNC. But I guess wealth transfer is OK as long as the wealth is transferred into the Trump coffers, ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/117 "2020-06-15T21:07:08Z")
Ok, all you with the insider knowledge. Please keep us notified about what you are hearing. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/118 "2020-06-15T21:14:22Z")
Not insider knowledge but I saw a reddit thread this morning with some CHAZ residents bitching about 3 days of nonstop loud music all through the night. “It’s like living in burning man.” Obviously not the wasteland the right wants it to be but this is sorta my issue with the whole thing. I think armed police responding to noise complaints is a terrible idea, but I also think that a community has a right to set its own rules and have a way to enforce them. Did the residents get a say in whether or not their neighborhood turned into burning man? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/119 "2020-06-15T21:15:01Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Ok, all you with the insider knowledge. Please keep us notified about what you are hearing. I’m glad you seem to be open to hearing from local sources on the ground saying that this is largely a peaceful non-event. Knowing this, has it changed your view of Fox and right-wing media portraying this an an anarchist orgy of baby-eating violence? ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2020, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456/120 "2020-06-16T11:24:02Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m glad you seem to be open to hearing from local sources on the ground saying that this is largely a peaceful non-event. > > Knowing this, has it changed your view of Fox and right-wing media portraying this an an anarchist orgy of baby-eating violence? UIf that is where you honedtly think I’m coming from then YOU are the delusional one. What is with the name change away from CHAZ? Also I’m guessing this thing changes day by day as different people come in and out. I’m guessing right now authorities are in the mode of let people have their fun and it will go away on its own. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-about-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/855456.md?page=7)