# What to do with slaves? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 2, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476 "2018-05-02T21:18:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/21 "2018-05-02T23:28:22Z")
If I were somehow transported back in time _with the same mind that I have now_, and had slaves, I think I’d quickly fuck off to another country that didn’t have slavery, ideally taking the slaves with me. OP says “there’s nowhere to release them”, well, if I was “well to do” in such a society, presumably I could travel elsewhere and release them there. If I was literally forced to own 20 slaves (which would make _me_ a slave to whoever was forcing me to do this) and couldn’t take them to another country, well, I guess I would just treat them as extended family members, let them live on my farm and do whatever they wanted to do, and ensure that they have the resources to live a comfortable life. Could I teach one of the slaves how to drive? That’s really the only thing I’d want someone else to do for me if I had slaves. I would have him be my driver, and I would reward or compensate him in some way for this so it’d be equivalent to an employee. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/22 "2018-05-02T23:45:53Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Though of course, if the slaves would be “pretty confused by the arrangement” of being treated like basic equals in a household, then perhaps they’re stupider than actual slaves made by enslaving people - perhaps they’re robots or something. (Even for the sake of argument I’m unwilling to accept that actual humans become subhumanly stupid or docile while enslaved.) They don’t have to be stupid but not knowing any other kind of life would make it hard to adjust. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > But your hypothetical is weird. As best as I know, there’s never been a place where it was impossible to manumit a slave, and most of the societies that had slaves included a fair number of wealthy powerful slaves who lived pretty well. So I don’t know if we are just in a world where you control wage-slaves who have signed an extremely tight non-compete, and have no practical alternative but to do your bidding, or if we are in a world that wants agricultural slaves en mass, or a world with legislated sadism, or what. The original premise I had was an alt-history where the confederacy won the American civil war and still became a superpower but spreading slave ownership instead of democracy as the principle of good governance. The institution would be so ingrained in the culture that it would be unthinkable to change it (you’d have to admit you’re the monster) but slavery becomes less economical as automation is developed so I wondered what you could put them to do (I’m thinking of writing something and this was a sticking point) I thought you might rent them to factories or something but thought I’d cast around for other ideas. > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > If I were somehow transported back in time _with the same mind that I have now_, and had slaves, I think I’d quickly fuck off to another country that didn’t have slavery, ideally taking the slaves with me. OP says “there’s nowhere to release them”, well, if I was “well to do” in such a society, presumably I could travel elsewhere and release them there. > > If I was literally forced to own 20 slaves (which would make _me_ a slave to whoever was forcing me to do this) and couldn’t take them to another country, well, I guess I would just treat them as extended family members, let them live on my farm and do whatever they wanted to do, and ensure that they have the resources to live a comfortable life. > > Could I teach one of the slaves how to drive? That’s really the only thing I’d want someone else to do for me if I had slaves. I would have him be my driver, and I would reward or compensate him in some way for this so it’d be equivalent to an employee. Driving should be fine, the concept of the owner being somewhat enslaved by the societal expectations is a theme of my planned story ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/23 "2018-05-02T23:51:49Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > They don’t have to be stupid but not knowing any other kind of life would make it hard to adjust. Baby steps. First you let them have sheets, then you let them sit at the table, then they stab you and take all your money. Confederate slavery was predicated on the widely accepted idea that the slaves in question were subhuman. This idea was, of course, _super_ convenient for various moral and economic reasons - you could and _should_ treat them like dirt - which is cheaper! Of course the upshot of this is that in such a society if I start treating my slaves like people, everybody’s going to try to stop me, up to and including killing me. Is that the case in your hypothetical society? If so I may have to ‘put on airs’ in society lest I be censured in ways I’d find uncomfortable/fatal. Or regress from society entirely, which come to think of it wouldn’t be much of a change. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/24 "2018-05-02T23:53:09Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Stray cats are a fucking ecological disaster, if you found a horde of locusts cute, I’d recommend killing them too. Oh, and humans aren’t an ecological disaster? ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/25 "2018-05-02T23:58:27Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Oh, and humans aren’t an ecological disaster? Stray humans are harder to put in sacks ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/26 "2018-05-03T00:02:26Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Really, was this a thing? You couldn’t emancipate your slaves if you wanted to? (or unless there’s a difference between dumping and emancipating) In much of medieval Europe the majority of people were, [as William Robertson writes](https://books.google.co.th/books?id=pw47AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27), > [@](#): > > … slaves fixed to the soil which they cultivated, and together with it were transferred from one proprietor to another, by sale or by conveyance. The spirit of feudal policy did not favour the enfranchisement of that order of men. It was an established maxim, that no vassal could legally diminish the value of a fief, to the detriment of the lord from whom he had received it. In consequence of this, **manumission by the authority of the immediate master was not valid** ; and unless it was confirmed by the superior lord of whom he held, slaves belonging to the fief, did not acquire a complete right to their liberty. Thus it became necessary to ascend through all the gradations of feudal holding to the King, the Lord Paramount\*. A form of procedure so tedious and troublesome, discouraged the practice of manumission. Domestic or personal slaves often obtained liberty from the humanity or beneficence of their masters to whom they belonged in personal property. The condition of slaves fixed to the soil was much more unalterable. [my bolding] - Here [Robertson cites this page of _Ordonnances des roys de France de la troisième race_](http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k1181592/f333.image). ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/27 "2018-05-03T00:03:33Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Stray humans are harder to put in sacks If they’re your property, I’m sure you can get it done just fine. I believe in you. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/28 "2018-05-03T00:06:32Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Baby steps. First you let them have sheets, then you let them sit at the table, then they stab you and take all your money. > > Confederate slavery was predicated on the widely accepted idea that the slaves in question were subhuman. This idea was, of course, _super_ convenient for various moral and economic reasons - you could and _should_ treat them like dirt - which is cheaper! Of course the upshot of this is that in such a society if I start treating my slaves like people, everybody’s going to try to stop me, up to and including killing me. Is that the case in your hypothetical society? If so I may have to ‘put on airs’ in society lest I be censured in ways I’d find uncomfortable/fatal. Or regress from society entirely, which come to think of it wouldn’t be much of a change. That sort of society is what I was thinking of, if you started having dinner with your slaves, you might start getting audited by the IRS or have cops harrass you. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/29 "2018-05-03T00:11:35Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > If they’re your property, I’m sure you can get it done just fine. I believe in you. I’ll try…for you. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/30 "2018-05-03T00:13:22Z")
From what i gather, the OP is creating a scenario where by it is not possible to simply state that i here by declare you free, as society will not allow it, at best i would just be sending that person off to become someone else’s slave. Fine, then so be it. Then i will assume a scenario that i am of enough means and power that at least upon my own lands i am utterly beyond contestation. And there for, while they may not be allowed by society to leave, they will live here as free a human being as possible. If they wish to learn, the best possible opportunity will be made available They will earn a more than fare wage for their work If society will not allow them to go and spend that wage, even as my agents, then i will simply function as their agent and have their purchases brought here. It does not seem as if there is any place in the OP’s reality for them to go any more free than with me, and definitely not near as safe. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/31 "2018-05-03T00:18:14Z")
What were the slaves doing before I inherited them? Were they making money? Was it profitable? If so, keep on doing that, I guess? If not, find more profitable ways they can be employed? Do I, in this hypothetical, have any moral objection to slavery? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/32 "2018-05-03T00:19:27Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > Then i will assume a scenario that i am of enough means and power that at least upon my own lands i am utterly beyond contestation. The hypothetical says you did not inherit any land, just slaves. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/33 "2018-05-03T00:21:27Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > I’ll try…for you. Please, call me McGarnigal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/34 "2018-05-03T00:29:23Z")
Slavery would not have been made uneconomical by 20th century industry, because it was already uneconomical in the 19th century, and probably in the 18th. Slavery has never been about economy. It’s about needing someone to feel superior to. ---
**Author:** ![Delicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@Delicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delicious)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/35 "2018-05-03T00:40:32Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > What were the slaves doing before I inherited them? Were they making money? Was it profitable? If so, keep on doing that, I guess? If not, find more profitable ways they can be employed? > > Do I, in this hypothetical, have any moral objection to slavery? Your father had land & slaves worked as farmers & tourism guides. Creditors took land when he died. You may have moral objections, in this society voicing said objections will at best make you a pariah ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/36 "2018-05-03T01:03:28Z")
A few more slaves and that’d be enough to do some hardcore World of Warcraft raiding. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/37 "2018-05-03T01:07:00Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Your father had land & slaves worked as farmers & tourism guides. Creditors took land when he died. > > You may have moral objections, in this society voicing said objections will at best make you a pariah So I’ve got no land, then? Do I have any other sources of income? Barring that, it seems like the answer would be to sell off some of the slaves to raise the money to buy land the rest of the slaves could farm? Would that work? I’ve never owned slaves in real life, so I don’t have much experience. I assume the fictional me would be better at slave and land management. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/38 "2018-05-03T01:12:02Z")
This sounds more like serfdom rather than slavery. (As in, you’re not allowed to sell them off or set them free) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/39 "2018-05-03T01:36:54Z")
It’s cheaper to off-shore them. Leave them across the sea in poorer countries, pay them starvation wages, exploit and import their productivity, and you don;t need to concern yourself with their housing or nutrition or health care or any pesky complaints. History can be an effective teacher. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2018, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476/40 "2018-05-03T05:53:46Z")
> [@Delicious](#): > > Stray cats are a fucking ecological disaster… Not around here. One moved into my house, but that was before the self-reintroduction of coyotes into our neighborhood ecosystem. Now no kitties. Yesterday a coyote tried to solve our vexing ecological disaster of loose dogs straying more than a few feet from their owners while playing ball, but chose one more than twice his size. I think the coyote is in Iowa by now, possibly minus his balls. > [@Delicious](#): > > The original premise I had was an alt-history where the confederacy won the American civil war _ **and still became a superpower** _ … I could address this and explain why I suspect that this is where alt-history falls down and something about agrarian societies like Czarist Russia and yada-yada that I can’t even convince myself is true but I’m 2/3 asleep. Maybe it will come to me in a dream but I’ll probably dream about taking a long walk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-do-with-slaves/813476.md?page=3)