# What to Republicans (specific ones and in general) think of the debt limit? Effect on future? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628 "2011-06-23T23:24:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/1 "2011-06-23T23:24:51Z")
I know I have a thread on this already, sort of, but this is a little more specific (and heck, it’s _only_ the health of the entire global economy at stake). What with Eric Cantor bowing out of negotiations (though there is uncertainty on why and how it’ll really affect anything), and some (around 10 in each house of Congress) signing a pledge to never raise the limit without huge spending cuts and a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, I was wondering this: What do Republicans (both in and out of political power, whether specifically or in general) think of the debt limit? It has been raised many times in the past, under Presidents of both parties. What’s the “problem” now? Congressional leaders on that side of the aisle have been quoted as saying that defaulting won’t be a huge deal. Do they really believe that? How many of them do? Of course, polls show that many in the electorate are skeptical of what the debt limit means and what it does. How much cover does this give? Liberals insist, of course, that at least some Republicans are willing to crash the global economy so they can blame Obama and gain power in the next elections. Said liberals are, however, split on whether Wall Street Republican fundraisers will put pressure on Republicans to get a deal done, or whether said fundraisers will just move their money around to make a profit on any crash that follows. Preexisting political prejudice aside, if one of those things happened, which do you think it’d be? Finally, is what’s happening now indicative of what’ll happen when this comes up again in the future, assuming no one touches the laws governing this in the meantime? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/2 "2011-06-24T16:39:21Z")
Not raising the debt limit would be disastrous. Everyone know that, Repubs and Dems. The GOP is using this opportunity to try to force through some of the spending cuts that they would like. The debt limit will certainly be increased; it’s just a matter of who blinks first. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/3 "2011-06-24T16:45:34Z")
As to your last question, I think this is a unique circumstance wrt the debt limit - a high-deficit bad-economy climate where the Congress is split and the president appears weak. In situations where one party controls both houses you generally see the limit raised with little noise. As to what will happen **jtgain** has it about right, I think. The GOP has tipped their hands, and are trying to get a deal good enough that their base doesn’t destroy them over it. Since they refuse any tax increases as part of the bargain, they will not get any Medicare reductions either. They’ll get some spending cuts now (basically the ones the Dems have already agreed to), and vague promises about future entitlement reductions. Personally I think they’d be better off politically if they agreed to marginal tax increases along with meaningful Medicare reductions, but it’s not clear to me that Democrats would even go for that - and when you have the GOP leadership admitting that ultimately the limit will be raised, why would they? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/4 "2011-06-24T16:46:18Z")
Playing chicken is risking your own life, not other peoples’. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/5 "2011-06-24T16:56:46Z")
To illustrate my point, here are Boehner’s current demands: > [@](#): > > To that end, Boehner said the House would not vote to increase the debt limit unless it was accompanied by a deal that included: 1) no tax hikes, 2) spending cuts “that exceed the amount of the debt limit hike,” and 3) budget reforms “that will restrict Washington’s ability to spend in the future.” That is not grounds for a workable compromise, and he has to know it. So, the question becomes, does he mean it? Or is this all political theater? I think the ultimate outcome of the budget resolution talks in the face of a government shutdown earlier this year shows the answer. ---
**Author:** ![Smitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Smitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smitty)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/6 "2011-06-24T17:44:44Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Liberals insist, of course, that at least some Republicans are willing to crash the global economy so they can blame Obama and gain power in the next elections. It isn’t just Republicans: [QUOTE= Senator Obama] “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.” [/QUOTe] That was Obama in 2006 when he voted against raising the debt ceiling. This is a political game for both parties, and always has been. Republicans believe they are in a position right now to get concessions they wouldn’t get any other way, so they are going to use it. It will be raised, but it will go down to the wire. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/7 "2011-06-24T17:59:12Z")
What is the source of that quote? Not doubting you, just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/8 "2011-06-24T19:43:10Z")
Yeah, I’ve seen that quote as well - obviously the debt ceiling has been a political game for a long time now. The party in power votes for it and the party out votes against it. That’s why it’s unusually harsh right now - both parties have to vote for it for it if it’s going to pass. Usually the party out of power is able to demagogue it, but right now nobody is in that position. Instead, _gasp_, they actually have to work together. The funny thing is, neither side has any leverage here. Both sides have extremely unpopular solutions (tax hikes and Medicare cuts, respectively). The public somehow wants low taxes, high spending, _and_ no increase in the debt. So you have a situation where doing nothing is bad in reality, but doing something (anything, really) hurts politically. The only compromise is doing _both_ things the public is against - not really a good solution in the minds of the public. The only politically-viable solution is theater - pretend to be angry, let it go to the wire, and the cry about how you had no choice but to vote for an increase even though the big bad (insert opponent party here) wouldn’t do the reasonable thing by (insert preferred policy here). Here’s a cite on the Obama quote ([Obama once opposed lifting debt ceiling](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2011/01/obama-once-opposed-lifting-debt-ceiling/1)) - it’s from 2006 when he was a Senator. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/9 "2011-06-24T20:14:50Z")
I think the Democrats made a mistake by letting the Republicans tie the debt limit increase to a budget deal. It just gave the Republicans a hammer which to beat them over the head. They simply should have repeated something to the effect of: “Q% of the debt was accumulated under Reagan, X% under Bush, Y% under Clinton, and Z% under Bush II. The debt is the result of actions by both parties over the course of decades. We are committed to reducing the deficit, but we are not willing to engage in a game of chicken. Failing to raise the debt ceiling will make the recent economic crisis look like a Sunday picnic.” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/10 "2011-06-24T20:29:16Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I think the Democrats made a mistake by letting the Republicans tie the debt limit increase to a budget deal. It just gave the Republicans a hammer which to beat them over the head. Hm… perhaps, but politically they didn’t really have a choice. The GOP put up a vote for a clean debt limit increase in the House, but most Dems voted against it (for political reasons). The Dems prefer what is likely to be the final solution - debt limit increase, something like $1-2 trillion in spending cuts (pretty much the stuff that Obama already proposed - note that these are cuts over the alternative baseline, not the “real” baseline) with no cuts to Medicare or Social Security and no tax increases. The only tricky part is getting enough of the GOP to vote for it to make it “bipartisan”. The trick for the GOP, obviously, is convincing the Tea Party that the cuts are big enough even when they don’t include entitlements. Remember the Democrats already have the entire House GOP, and most of the Senate, on record voting for massive Medicare overhaul and cuts. This is not a hook they want to let them off of. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/11 "2011-06-24T20:45:18Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Hm… perhaps, but politically they didn’t really have a choice. The GOP put up a vote for a clean debt limit increase in the House, but most Dems voted against it (for political reasons). Which I think was the mistake in question. They should have voted yes and just said what I posted above. The problem with going for a deal is that House Republicans aren’t going to include tax increases. But since the Democrats have played ball, they now have to come up with a deal or they share in the blame. In effect, they’ve already lost. Spending on popular programs is going to go down, while taxes remain low. What are we going to see at the next budget debate? Pretty much the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/12 "2011-06-24T23:21:54Z")
Obama needs to tell them, if there are no tax increases, there will be no spending cuts, and no debt ceiling increase. Do your worst. Republicans may not blink, but their corporate handlers will. They know what will happen with default. Eric Cantor and John Boehner will dance like craven little puppets. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-to-republicans-specific-ones-and-in-general-think-of-the-debt-limit-effect-on-future/586628/13 "2011-06-24T23:29:15Z")
Theorizing from a partisan blog: > [@Brian Beutler](#): > > But numerous influential Republicans like DeMint have planted seeds of doubt about the stakes in the minds of rank and file members in both the House and Senate. Thus… Boehner and… McConnell will likely face significant defections when the vote comes down. Thus, in one highy plausible scenario, raising the debt limit will require significant Democratic buy-in. And if that’s the case, it means the legislative package can’t include a GOP wishlist of dramatic spending cuts to big entitlements. But if Republicans don’t get what they want out of the debate, more of them will defect, meaning leaders will need more Democratic support, and a less draconian bill, which could trigger further GOP backlash in a dynamic that could end in a debt limit measure that can’t pass the Republican-controlled House. That’s the nightmare scenario.