# What two British songwriters together could have competed with The Beatles **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 11, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668 "2017-06-11T04:14:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/1 "2017-06-11T04:14:50Z")
This is the assignment. There are a bunch of contemporaneous names that could make up a great shortlist. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/2 "2017-06-11T04:24:39Z")
Davies Bros ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/3 "2017-06-11T04:37:29Z")
And what two US songwriters could have competed with them both??!~ ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/4 "2017-06-11T04:42:42Z")
Partnerships are rare and special things. You can never put two independent fully-formed personalities together and expect them to become greater than the sum of their parts. Blind Faith was started because Eric Clapton wanted to work with Steve Winwood. Their first album had great stuff. The group had great potential. But they weren’t a pair of songwriters. How many can you name in any music of any kind of any time? Every pairing that was a true half-and-half I can think of was either two young people or an older name taking on a young up-and-comer. The closest competitor the Beatles had was Jagger-Richards, who you can make a good case exceeded them by the end of the Beatles run. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/5 "2017-06-11T05:10:51Z")
For the Tanks, how about Henley and Frey? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/6 "2017-06-11T05:11:56Z")
Yanks ---
**Author:** ![Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mean_mr.mustard/32/3865_2.png) [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mean_Mr.Mustard)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/7 "2017-06-11T11:54:22Z")
I would love to hear what **Elvis Costello** and **Roger Waters** could beget. mmm ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/8 "2017-06-11T12:04:38Z")
Vivian Stanshall and Neil Innes. Steve Winwood and Jin Capaldi ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/9 "2017-06-11T13:46:15Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > And what two US songwriters could have competed with them both??!~ Rogers and Hart? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/10 "2017-06-11T15:20:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Partnerships are rare and special things. You can never put two independent fully-formed personalities together and expect them to become greater than the sum of their parts. It’s not clear to me whether the OP is looking for songwriters who could, working together in partnership, have competed with The Beatles, or just two songwriters whose individual talent and output adds up to something in the same ballpark as Lennon and McCartney. If the latter, Ray Davies definitely deserves to be one of the names on the shortlist. But as a songwriter, he was never much of a collaborator (though it’s fun to speculate what he might have come up with if he had worked with, say, Bowie). Dave may have had more input into the Kinks’ songs than he gets credit for, but the Davies brothers were never a songwriting team the way Lennon & McCartney were. As a songwriter, Dave was to the Kinks what George was to the Beatles. > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > I would love to hear what **Elvis Costello** and **Roger Waters** could beget. Elvis has, of course, collaborated with McCartney (on songs like _Veronica_ and _My Brave Face_). The results weren’t bad, but they weren’t the next Lennon-McCartney or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/11 "2017-06-11T15:47:27Z")
Third vote for Ray Davies. Collaborating with any other top-rate songwriter he could hold his nose and work alongside. My personal vote would be Syd Barrett. Ray drunk and Syd tripping might have produced some epic material. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/12 "2017-06-11T16:50:27Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > It’s not clear to me whether the OP is looking for songwriters who could, working together in partnership, have competed with The Beatles, or just two songwriters whose individual talent and output adds up to something in the same ballpark as Lennon and McCartney. > > If the latter, Ray Davies definitely deserves to be one of the names on the shortlist. But as a songwriter, he was never much of a collaborator (though it’s fun to speculate what he might have come up with if he had worked with, say, Bowie). Dave may have had more input into the Kinks’ songs than he gets credit for, but the Davies brothers were never a songwriting team the way Lennon & McCartney were. As a songwriter, Dave was to the Kinks what George was to the Beatles. > > Elvis has, of course, collaborated with McCartney (on songs like _Veronica_ and _My Brave Face_). The results weren’t bad, but they weren’t the next Lennon-McCartney or anything. OK I couldn’t get enough words into the title to express myself completely. I’m trying to consider fantasy bands which have two songwriters in them who are from the same era as the fabs, generally, who would work together and make the kind of partnership that might have competed with the beatles for quality and success. I don’t think the stones succeeded at that, ymmv. If you really feel that someone couldn’t work with others OK. But I’m not limiting myself that way. So far the only person who’s playing is Uke. Ray and Syd. It’s going to take me a little bit to try it out in my mind. My feeling is that the fabs had two stellar songwriters and that the beach boys, kinks, and many others, not to mention dylan and other solos, had to rely on one person for the bulk of the material. So it was that much harder to compete. Look what it did to Brian. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/13 "2017-06-13T00:37:43Z")
Top of my head … Peter Green/Amy Winehouse How about Katie Bush/Radiohead ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/14 "2017-06-13T07:45:57Z")
Until the OP clarified his intent, I would have suggested Tillbrook and Difford (of Squeeze) as a British songwriting partnership in the same ballpark as Lennon and McCartney. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/15 "2017-06-13T07:50:37Z")
With the OP’s clarification…I wonder if Jimmy Page had left session work earlier for a band where he w joyed a strong songwriting partnership, that could have been something, maybe. Who would have provided the chemistry and balance (lyrics, mainly), circa 1965? Not sure. Was Roy Harper old enough yet? Maddy Prior was only 19, but maybe… ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/16 "2017-06-13T09:15:36Z")
Brian Eno / Kate Bush - their bastard-child combination of long-form adventurous noise making and lyricism would have transformed modern music, stopped BritPop in its tracks and spared us from the Gallagher brothers. Or, if that’s outside the brief, how about Liam and Noel Gallagher - I hear they’re top blokes, and they already sound like the Beatles? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/17 "2017-06-13T11:45:09Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > And what two US songwriters could have competed with them both??!~ The most successful American songwriting team of the rock era had three members: Holland, Dozier and Holland. ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/18 "2017-06-13T11:46:31Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > OK I couldn’t get enough words into the title to express myself completely. > > I’m trying to consider fantasy bands which have two songwriters in them who are from the same era as the fabs, generally, who would work together and make the kind of partnership that might have competed with the beatles for quality and success. I don’t think the stones succeeded at that, ymmv. > > If you really feel that someone couldn’t work with others OK. But I’m not limiting myself that way. > > So far the only person who’s playing is Uke. Ray and Syd. It’s going to take me a little bit to try it out in my mind. > > My feeling is that the fabs had two stellar songwriters and that the beach boys, kinks, and many others, not to mention dylan and other solos, had to rely on one person for the bulk of the material. So it was that much harder to compete. Look what it did to Brian. Even with this, I’m not sure what your goal is, exactly. Or perhaps, it would be more accurate to say that it isn’t possible to have any real answers, because every situation was entirely unique. The closest I can think of to anyone being similar enough to what Lennon and McCartney were TRYING to be, is who they WERE trying to be, which was Goffin-King. The thing is, you need to define your terms a bit more specifically, if you want a serious discussion. Some writers are inherently not good team mates for anyone, because they are intent on expressing only very individually personal thoughts, for example. Lennon-McCartney were spectacularly successful as a songwriting TEAM, for only a few years. As the band became more successful, they grew apart, and the Lennon-McCartney label was applied more and more as a pure business tag, while the songs themselves weren’t true collaborations. If all you are looking for, are writers who were equally successful in the marketplace monetarily or in number of top 100 songs of their era, you’d get a different answer. Matching up writing styles and goals would be very difficult. And do they have to be performer-writer teams? John-Taupin were very successful for a while back then, but we never saw Taupin on stage, that I know of. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/19 "2017-06-13T12:44:24Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > And what two US songwriters could have competed with them both??!~ I’d say Blake Schwarzenbach and Claudio Sanchez. Now, Coheed and Cambria is definitely not contemporaneous, but Jawbreaker started in 1986, which is closer to the Beatles than it is to today. I think that together, they could address each others “shortcomings”: Claudio is slightly better at an overarching narrative, while Blake has better incisive, short, poetic turns of phrases, and furthermore, for each one of these brilliant moments, Claudio has an equivalent time where it’s slightly on the stupid side of the fine line between brilliant and moronic. I mean, I know that he’s a general in the saga, but he has a repeated lyric that says over and over “I need Mayo” No, just no. Blake would stop that right there. To people who don’t know the backstory, it sounds like Coheed and Cambria are revealing their passion for condiments. And the core songwriting power of the two put together would be just staggering. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668/20 "2017-06-13T13:31:48Z")
Most of the top songwriters in America have been lone wolves, like… Sam Cooke Bob Dylan Neil Diamond John Fogerty Billy Joel Smoky Robinson Paul Simon Bruce Springsteen Brian Wilson Stevie Wonder The most successful American songwriting TEAMS of the rock era were: Holland-Dozier-Holland Goffin -King Mann-Well Doc Pomus & Mort Shulman Lennon and McCartney stand pretty much alone. What other British songwriters have written 10+ big hits and/or enduring classics (bonus points if some of their songs were hits for other artists): Jagger-Richards Ray Davies Pete Townshend Barry Gibb Elton Jihn-Bernie Taupin Roger Waters [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-two-british-songwriters-together-could-have-competed-with-the-beatles/788668.md?page=2)