# What type of snake is this? (seen in Southern California) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 11, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390 "2017-05-11T20:10:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![araminty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5e925/32.png) [@araminty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/araminty)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/21 "2017-05-12T19:41:41Z")
This is my favourite [gopher snake](http://imgur.com/a/iBVhv) encounter on the Bay Trail in Sunnyvale. Basenji for scale. (She was on a leash, of course). ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/22 "2017-05-12T19:44:48Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > This is a distinction you are free to make in your own speech, but it is not a rule by which the corpus of english speakers abides. I think it is pretty well known and actually is an important distinction to make. If you found a dead _poisonous_ creature you might want to treat it differently to a dead _venomous_ creature. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/23 "2017-05-12T19:46:02Z")
> [@araminty](#): > > This is my favourite [gopher snake](http://imgur.com/a/iBVhv) encounter on the Bay Trail in Sunnyvale. Basenji for scale. (She was on a leash, of course). One that size can swallow small rabbits. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/24 "2017-05-12T20:11:28Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think it is pretty well known and actually is an important distinction to make. > > If you found a dead _poisonous_ creature you might want to treat it differently to a dead _venomous_ creature. I generally don’t eat any dead creatures I just happen across. [Google Ngram result on “poisonous snake” vs “venomous snake”.](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=poisonous+snake%2Cvenomous+snake&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpoisonous%20snake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvenomous%20snake%3B%2Cc0) ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/25 "2017-05-12T20:15:30Z")
Just for fun, a [picture](https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5vhja9utjv8mv4/07101306a.jpg?dl=0) of some Florida Pine Snakes we bred and hatched back in 2007. Tough little customers right from the get-go! All were released into appropriate native habitats. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/26 "2017-05-12T21:18:17Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I generally don’t eat any dead creatures I just happen across. > > [Google Ngram result on “poisonous snake” vs “venomous snake”.](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=poisonous+snake%2Cvenomous+snake&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpoisonous%20snake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvenomous%20snake%3B%2Cc0) I don’t doubt it is popular, that doesn’t mean it is accurate…“fighting ignorance” ring a bell? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/27 "2017-05-12T21:20:32Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > “fighting ignorance” ring a bell? Yeah, that’s what I’m doing. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/28 "2017-05-12T22:45:58Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Yeah, that’s what I’m doing. You are, for a reason I cannot fathom, being a bit precious about this. I’m not sure why you even replied to my original post. I know full well that people use poisonous/venomous interchangeably. Such is the ebb and flow of the english language. If I weren’t aware of the common (technically incorrect) usage what would be the point of me posting the clarification? What I said was merely a little aside, a footnote…no snark intended. By taking umbrage at me pointing out that there is actually a proper biological difference between those terms you are certainly doing something, but “fighting ignorance” it ain’t. I shall leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/29 "2017-05-13T01:39:56Z")
I was at Carlsbad Caverns today and saw [this gopher snake](https://goo.gl/photos/y7i8691BCjpo95mb9) alongside the road. A nice healthy specimen that seemed perfectly content to hang out for a few minutes while I snapped some pics. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/30 "2017-05-15T20:00:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You are, for a reason I cannot fathom, being a bit precious about this. I’m not sure why you even replied to my original post. > > I know full well that people use poisonous/venomous interchangeably. Such is the ebb and flow of the english language. If I weren’t aware of the common (technically incorrect) usage what would be the point of me posting the clarification? What I said was merely a little aside, a footnote…no snark intended. > > By taking umbrage at me pointing out that there is actually a proper biological difference between those terms you are certainly doing something, but “fighting ignorance” it ain’t. I am fighting your ignorance that it is somehow incorrect to refer to a snake that injects venom with its bite as a poisonous snake. A rattlesnake is a venomous snake. It is also a poisonous snake. A poison dart frog is a poisonous frog, but not a venomous frog. You thought that it was appropriate to correct Sunny Daze, so I’m not sure why you’re being so touchy about me correcting you. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/31 "2017-05-15T21:04:32Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I am fighting your ignorance that it is somehow incorrect to refer to a snake that injects venom with its bite as a poisonous snake. A rattlesnake is a venomous snake. It is also a poisonous snake. A poison dart frog is a poisonous frog, but not a venomous frog. > > You thought that it was appropriate to correct Sunny Daze, so I’m not sure why you’re being so touchy about me correcting you. Because you are incorrect. What you are saying, in essence, is that it is “correct” to say rattlesnakes are “poisonous” because lots of people incorrectly use the term that way. While we can agree that this means that people will understand you if you say a snake is “poisonous”, that does not make the use of the term “correct.” ---
**Author:** ![Pasta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@Pasta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pasta)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/32 "2017-05-15T21:19:55Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Because you are incorrect. What you are saying, in essence, is that it is “correct” to say rattlesnakes are “poisonous” because lots of people incorrectly use the term that way. While we can agree that this means that people will understand you if you say a snake is “poisonous”, that does not make the use of the term “correct.” Citation? “Venomous snake” has never been significantly more common than “poisonous snake” [going back 300 years](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=poisonous+snake%2C+venomous+snake&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpoisonous%20snake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvenomous%20snake%3B%2Cc0), and for the past century “poisonous snake” has been [decisively the more common phrase](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=poisonous+snake%2Cvenomous+snake&year_start=1908&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpoisonous%20snake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvenomous%20snake%3B%2Cc0). This is how language is defined, not by relatively recent quibbles that are invented out of whole cloth. It’s also why dictionaries include this (correct) usage of “poisonous”. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/33 "2017-05-16T00:22:31Z")
> [@Pasta](#): > > Citation? > > “Venomous snake” has never been significantly more common than “poisonous snake” [going back 300 years](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=poisonous+snake%2C+venomous+snake&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpoisonous%20snake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvenomous%20snake%3B%2Cc0), and for the past century “poisonous snake” has been [decisively the more common phrase](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=poisonous+snake%2Cvenomous+snake&year_start=1908&year_end=2008&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cpoisonous%20snake%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cvenomous%20snake%3B%2Cc0). This is how language is defined, not by relatively recent quibbles that are invented out of whole cloth. It’s also why dictionaries include this (correct) usage of “poisonous”. You’re missing the point, I think. [Here is an example of a Dictionary making the precise distinction in question.](https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/poisonous) An animal is “venomous” if it uses “venom” to do its dirty work. An animal is “poisonous” by the same reasoning if it **itself** has some poison aspect. A rattlesnake is by this “correct” (meaning here properly derived) definition not “poisonous” because you can eat a rattlesnake, hold a rattlesnake, smell a rattlesnake, etc., without being harmed. The snake itself has no deleterious effect upon you. Now, the fact that people have used the term “poisonous” to describe things that are not truly “poisonous” for a long time simply means that a person is abiding by accustomed usage in saying a rattlesnake is a poisonous snake, for example. But that’s why what **Novelty Bobble** did is picking a “nit”: the distinction being made by that poster was to show that there is a precise meaning for venomous and one for poisonous, and _properly_ used, the former, not the latter, applies to a snake like a rattlesnake. If it weren’t for the fact that common usage tends to ignore the distinction, then it wouldn’t be a nit-pick; it would be a basic, “you’re using that wrong!” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/34 "2017-05-16T13:39:50Z")
No one is arguing that a distinction can’t be made. If you and Novelty Bubble want to use venomous and poisonous in this way, please do so, but don’t pretend that your _stylistic_ choice is anything other than what it is: a personal preference. > [@Venomous vs. poisonous: A history?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venomous-vs-poisonous-a-history/721055/4): > > When I worked in a venom lab in the 1970s, we used the words interchangably in conversation, but we did refer to our company as a venom lab, not a poison lab. I never ran into nitpickery on this topic until I started reading SDMB, and it makes me roll my eyes every time I see it. > [@Venomous vs. poisonous: A history?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/venomous-vs-poisonous-a-history/721055/7): > > When I took herpetology in 1972, I don’t ever recall a distinction being made. I’ve only heard this supposed distinction within the past decade or so. And you can find just as many dictionary entries that don’t bother with a distinction. From Google: (of an animal) producing poison as a means of attacking enemies or prey; venomous. adjective: poisonous “a poisonous snake” synonyms: venomous, deadly “a poisonous snake” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/35 "2017-05-16T15:16:06Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I don’t doubt it is popular, that doesn’t mean it is accurate…“fighting ignorance” ring a bell? Yes, it does mean it’s accurate. When a majority of people use a word in a particular way it’s not wrong, it’s the common usage. It’s what the word means to most people. You’re free to use your own idiolect, of course, but don’t presume to impose it when most people are using the meaning that most people use. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/36 "2017-05-16T16:47:57Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Looks like a gopher snake. Painful bite, and they can mimic rattling behavior, but harmless. I was trying to catch a black rat snake in our yard one day (my gf likes to relocate snakes away from our home to spare the toads and chipmunks). The snake was lying in dead leaves and did a very impressive rattle. Even though I _knew_ the species, it made me jump. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/37 "2017-05-16T16:55:23Z")
I also use venomous and poisonous separately (poisonous means don’t eat it, venomous means it will sting you) but since language is a living and constantly evolving thing, once a term becomes the more common usage it becomes “correct” regardless of how it was in the past. For better or worse. ☹ (Just as how I see people frequently misuse terms like “begging the question” on this board and I’ve resigned myself to the idea that they are probably “correct” now.) ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390/38 "2017-05-16T17:36:30Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I was trying to catch a black rat snake in our yard one day (my gf likes to relocate snakes away from our home to spare the toads and chipmunks). The snake was lying in dead leaves and did a very impressive rattle. Even though I _knew_ the species, it made me jump. Growing up in Ohio, lots of kids (like me) would catch them (we called them “black snakes”). They’d bluff and bluster and then try to escape. And they’d bite if you let them, of course. But once they calmed down and were handled regularly, they’d be as tame as could be. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I also use venomous and poisonous separately (poisonous means don’t eat it, venomous means it will sting you) but since language is a living and constantly evolving thing, once a term becomes the more common usage it becomes “correct” regardless of how it was in the past. > > For better or worse. ☹ > > (Just as how I see people frequently misuse terms like “begging the question” on this board and I’ve resigned myself to the idea that they are probably “correct” now.) The evidence indicates that the distinct meanings you use are the newer usage. And there’s nothing wrong with that. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-type-of-snake-is-this-seen-in-southern-california/786390.md?page=1)