# What U.S. government entities are a division of no cabinet department? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724 "2012-07-19T15:19:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/1 "2012-07-19T15:19:56Z")
The CIA is one, I believe. What are others? Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/2 "2012-07-19T15:29:09Z")
[List in Independent Agencies](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government). The CIA may be an independent agency but since 2004 its head reports to the Director of National Intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/3 "2012-07-19T15:31:34Z")
Nasa? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/4 "2012-07-19T15:33:22Z")
Lots. Wikipedia has a [an article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_government) listing several examples. Most regulatory boards and commissions are independent agencies, as is the US Postal Service, the Federal Reserve (if you want to consider that a government agency), and everybody’s favorite, the Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/5 "2012-07-19T15:34:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Nasa? Yep. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/6 "2012-07-19T17:37:52Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Nasa? There is no organization in the United States government named Nasa. Did you perhaps mean NASA? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/7 "2012-07-19T18:36:55Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There is no organization in the United States government named Nasa. Did you perhaps mean NASA? I’ve noticed that the BBC has started titlecasing acronyms: “Nasa” instead of “NASA”. ([Example.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18861463)) Perhaps **Siam Sam** is using BBC style. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/8 "2012-07-19T20:16:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I’ve noticed that the BBC has started titlecasing acronyms: “Nasa” instead of “NASA”. ([Example.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18861463)) Perhaps **Siam Sam** is using BBC style. I think “Nasa,” as opposed to “NASA,” is a division of the CIA, specializing in sniffing out spies. ---
**Author:** ![ScarletNumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@ScarletNumber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScarletNumber)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/9 "2012-07-19T20:22:51Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There is no organization in the United States government named Nasa. Did you perhaps mean NASA? 1. The SDMB will not allow a post with all caps. 2. Stop being obtuse; you knew what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/10 "2012-07-19T20:36:36Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There is no organization in the United States government named Nasa. Did you perhaps mean NASA? The term “NASA” is not defined in the US Code. Perhaps you meant the “[National Aeronautics and Space Administration](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/51/20111)?” ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/11 "2012-07-19T20:37:29Z")
So the heads of independent agencies do not serve at the pleasure of the President? I gather they are nominated and confirmed as all executive branch officers are, but the President can’t fire them? Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/12 "2012-07-19T20:54:00Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > So the heads of independent agencies do not serve at the pleasure of the President? I gather they are nominated and confirmed as all executive branch officers are, but the President can’t fire them? It depends on the controlling legislation which establishes the agency in question. Most things that are organized as boards and commissions have members appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate but who can not be fired by the President. For example, the SEC: > [@15 USC § 78d](#): > > There is hereby established a Securities and Exchange Commission (hereinafter referred to as the “Commission”) to be composed of five commissioners to be appointed by the President by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. On the other hand, for NASA: > [@51 USC § 20111](#): > > There is established the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The Administration shall be headed by an Administrator, who shall be appointed from civilian life by the President by and with the advice and consent of the Senate. **Under the supervision and direction of the President** , the Administrator shall be responsible for the exercise of all powers and the discharge of all duties of the Administration and shall have authority and control over all personnel and activities thereof. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/13 "2012-07-19T20:56:19Z")
The Wikipedia article lists entities in the Executive Branch. There are also government entities in the other two branches, including the Congress, the Library of Congress, and the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/14 "2012-07-19T20:57:39Z")
Anyone know why the National Transportation Safety Board isn’t under the Department of Transportation? It would seem like an obvious fit. Same question with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and the Department of Energy or the National Labor Relations Board and the Department of Labor. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/15 "2012-07-19T21:04:09Z")
Because all of those agencies are commissioned to do investigations, adjudicate disputes, and promulgate new regulations (or recommendations, in the case of the NTSB.) They therefore require a measure of independence from the administration, which is why they are not placed within the cabinet departments, whose job is to execute policy at the direction of the President. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/16 "2012-07-19T21:22:52Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > It depends on the controlling legislation which establishes the agency in question. Most things that are organized as boards and commissions have members appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate but who can not be fired by the President. For example, the SEC: Nitpick: The president can fire them, but only upon a showing of good cause (as opposed to other officials who, as you pointed out, can be fired for any reason at all). See [here](http://www.scotusblog.com/2010/06/provision-of-sarbanes-oxley-unconstitutionally-interferes-with-presidential-authority/) for a little discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/17 "2012-07-20T03:46:16Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There is no organization in the United States government named Nasa. Did you perhaps mean NASA? > [@Sunspace](#): > > I’ve noticed that the BBC has started titlecasing acronyms: “Nasa” instead of “NASA”. ([Example.](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18861463)) Perhaps **Siam Sam** is using BBC style. That’s the style the newspapers over here write too, and it’s the style I use. Sue me if you don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-u-s-government-entities-are-a-division-of-no-cabinet-department/628724/18 "2012-07-20T03:58:20Z")
The [Smithsonian Institution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian_Institution) is a US federal entity, but not part of the executive, legislative, or judicial branches. It is a “trust instrumentality,” governed by a Board of Regents that includes the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Vice President, three Senators, three Representatives, and nine citizen members. Appropriations come through the Department of the Interior, but the Institution doesn’t belong to it.