# What utilitarian value does an AR-15 have **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 20, 2019, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586 "2019-09-20T20:53:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MartinLane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f17d59/32.png) [@MartinLane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MartinLane)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/41 "2019-09-21T22:26:49Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s not the bullets; it’s the muzzle velocity that increases lethality. The AR-15 and its cousin, the M-16, punch out at 3300 fps, which means that the hydrostatic shock to surrounding tissue and organs upon impact is severe. Only with the lightest bullets. The low BC means velocity goes down fast. The 5.56 is also significantly less powerful than 22 magnums that are not sued by the military. 22-250 and 220 swift are examples. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/42 "2019-09-21T23:37:32Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s not the bullets; it’s the muzzle velocity that increases lethality. The AR-15 and its cousin, the M-16, punch out at 3300 fps, which means that the hydrostatic shock to surrounding tissue and organs upon impact is severe. Maybe; maybe not. I’m both a firearms instructor and hunter ed instructor. The science on hydrostatic shock doesn’t seem as solid as it did 30 years ago. Its one of those things that get into serious debates at our CE classes but weight may be a bigger factor, and velocity less a key, than we have traditionally been giving it credit for over the past generations. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/43 "2019-09-21T23:47:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Is a quick question ok? > > What’s the deal on AR-15 brands? Cheaper Than Dirt lists ATI, Del-Ton, Diamondback, Bushmaster, Rock River etc. I only see one S&W on Cheaper Than Dirt. > > Are these gun shops that a have a ATF license to assemble from import parts? Or actual manufacturers? A combination of “it depends” and “maybe”. Some makers pretty much make from scratch and some assemble/modify and brand. I have not kept current on who does what in this platform as much as I have a few others (M-1 as stated before and 1911A1 for example). I checked Rock River quick and the barrels are Wilson and the other parts are designed and speced by them but made other places; in their case almost all US. Like with cars today there is no strong case that the brand on the hood made each and every part under it. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/44 "2019-09-21T23:52:19Z")
Thanks. I’ll ask detailed questions at the gun show booths. S&W would be my preference, but the other brands are cheaper. I need to get a AR-15 for target shooting before any laws change. The 5.56 NATO (accepts .223 Remington) is all I need for targets. That’s a big enough caliber for home defense too. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/45 "2019-09-21T23:58:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > … I need to get a AR-15 for target shooting before any laws change. > > … [FUD](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt) makes another sale. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/46 "2019-09-22T00:03:17Z")
Yep. It’s already happened once. > **[Federal Assault Weapons Ban](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban)** > > The Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, popularly known as the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB), was a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, a United States federal law which included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of certain semi-automatic firearms that were defined as assault weapons as well as certain ammunition magazines that were defined as large capacity. > The 10-year ban was passed by the U.S. Congress on Augu... I wouldn’t buy any gun unless I intended to use it at the range. Dusty guns in drawers or closets don’t interest me. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/47 "2019-09-22T00:11:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Is a quick question ok? > > What’s the deal on AR-15 brands? Cheaper Than Dirt lists ATI, Del-Ton, Diamondback, Bushmaster, Rock River etc. I only see one S&W on Cheaper Than Dirt. > > Are these gun shops that a have a ATF license to assemble from import parts? Or actual manufacturers? > > I would buy from a local gun show or dealer instead of a web site. Geissele all the things! But seriously, it depends on the purpose you want to put the rifle to. Different brands cater to different markets. Entry-level, but still reliable? Something from Palmetto State Armory. Want to get into HighPower? White Oak and JP Rifles are great places to look. And spend. More mil-spec/defense minded? Daniel Defense, Knights Armament if you simply must have that SR-15. And spend and spend. I’d go to an enthusiast board, like [AR-15.com](http://AR-15.com) or [M4carbine.net](http://M4carbine.net), and poke around there for tips and answers to questions like, “I have 500 bucks, what should I get?” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/48 "2019-09-22T00:19:32Z")
I’ll check at [AR-15.com](http://AR-15.com). I appreciate the suggestion. There’s a bigger gun show in Little Rock Nov 2-3. Texarkana has one Nov 29-Dec 1. Should be a large selection to look at and price. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/49 "2019-09-22T00:24:16Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > It’s not the bullets; it’s the muzzle velocity that increases lethality. The AR-15 and its cousin, the M-16, punch out at 3300 fps, which means that the hydrostatic shock to surrounding tissue and organs upon impact is severe. That’s part of my point: almost any true hunting rifle/caliber one cares to name will induce hydrostatic shock (though I agree that the concept is controversial). 5.56 isn’t uniquely dangerous; it’s (marginally) less dangerous than most deer rifles. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/50 "2019-09-22T00:28:44Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ll check at [AR-15.com](http://AR-15.com). I appreciate the suggestion. > > There’s a bigger gun show in Little Rock Nov 2-3. Texarkana has one Nov 29-Dec 1. Should be a good selection to look at. The tech boards there are a fantastic resource. Very newcomer friendly. You will need a non-freeware email account to register to post. So no hotmail, gmail, etc… I have not been to a gun show. Anecdotally, my understanding is that bargains are few, caveat emptor rules the day, and the bullshit is deep. It’s supposed to be great people watching though. I’d find a decent local gun store instead to visit, pick their brains, and buy from. They’ll be stunned you’re actually buying something, and after that, hopefully really helpful. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/51 "2019-09-22T00:43:49Z")
One of my favorite ranges is in the basement of a local gun shop. The range has a separate outdoor entrance. I’ll check with the gun shop after doing my research. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/52 "2019-09-22T01:11:24Z")
My favorite AR is 9mm. It’s used for recreational shooting only. I also have one in .22LR. It’s only purpose is ventilating tin cans but it’s accurate enough that it could be used for squirrel, rabbit, etc. As for the OP’s question, they are (in 5.56 caliber) very popular with coyote hunters. Enough juice to deliver a humane kill and quick on follow up shots if the first one isn’t fatal enough. As mentioned above, 5.56/ .223 is considered by many to be insufficient for a humane kill on deer. This comes as a surprise to some non gun type people that are convinced that an AR blasts anything it hits into smithereens. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/53 "2019-09-22T01:24:34Z")
> [@EdelweissPirate](#): > > That’s part of my point: almost any true hunting rifle/caliber one cares to name will induce hydrostatic shock (though I agree that the concept is controversial). 5.56 isn’t uniquely dangerous; it’s (marginally) less dangerous than most deer rifles. Again its one of those -------- maybe. Maybe its more dangerous. Like I said, we have some lively discussions seminar evenings up at the Chapel on the Hill (the local bar). > **[How did the rumor start about the 5.56 mm rifle bullet tumbling through the...](https://www.quora.com/How-did-the-rumor-start-about-the-5-56-mm-rifle-bullet-tumbling-through-the-air-If-it-tumbled-how-could-it-be-accurate-I-believe-the-M-16-variants-are-effective-to-550-yards-with-a-tumbling-bullet)** > > Answer (1 of 18): The “tumbling M16” round is not a rumor, it is the result of mismatched cartridges with barrel twist and a misunderstanding of how terminal ballistics operate. > > The earliest M16 barrels had a 1:14 twist, that is, the round turned... IF you are close enough to still be at high velocity and IF the bullet behaves in a manner as predictable as these people think, then MAYBE a .223 has more killing potential than say a .30-30 or .30-06. I quote from the above “.22 caliber bullets are much thinner and weaker than .30. 5.56x45mm also produces higher velocity than 7.62x51mm and .30-06. The combination causes an increased tendency for bullets to break at their cannelure then fragment when they tumble after entering flesh, with the pieces tearing stretched tissues that would otherwise snap back. The resulting wounds are more severe.” This is a snippet at best but it illustrates that with modern firearms and science combined, few answers are totally yes or no. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586/54 "2019-09-24T02:57:16Z")
Whatever utilitarian value another rifle has, chances are good that an AR platform rifle will do it better. And at a very reasonable cost, barring the “Gucci” pay-more-for-same-performance rifles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-utilitarian-value-does-an-ar-15-have/840586.md?page=2)