# What valid treatments did pre “germ theory” doctors provide? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441 "2019-08-10T03:30:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/1 "2019-08-10T03:30:37Z")
Suppose you had access to time travel, and went back to some time before doctors understood germs (I’m using that as a time period because it seems to represent the point at which medicine became, to my amateur eye, scientifically sound). Since you’re traveling through time, you’re well aware that things like blood letting to balance humors is quackery. Surely, though, there were some things that even these primitive doctors were good at, if only from the experience of having tried different things. What would you - a modern, enlightened Doper - trust that doctor to do? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/2 "2019-08-10T03:43:36Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Suppose you had access to time travel, and went back to some time before doctors understood germs (I’m using that as a time period because it seems to represent the point at which medicine became, to my amateur eye, scientifically sound). Since you’re traveling through time, you’re well aware that things like blood letting to balance humors is quackery. > > Surely, though, there were some things that even these primitive doctors were good at, if only from the experience of having tried different things. What would you - a modern, enlightened Doper - trust that doctor to do? Provided we’re talking about a well trained physician or surgeon, I would trust them to set bones, stitch cuts, lance boils, pull teeth, give me an enema to treat my constipation, and of course give me a hair cut, shave, or trim my beard. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/3 "2019-08-10T03:45:47Z")
Compassion and empathy in some cases. With less else to offer my WAG is they did that better. Amputating when it was actually appropriate to do so. But it was a harsh thing to have done. And in some other places in some eras some plants did have some efficacies even if they were wrong as to the why. Also other approaches were sometimes right even as the reasoning was not. See for example Maimonides take on hemorrhoids. [Maimonides: an early but accurate view on the treatment of haemorrhoids - PMC](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2600069/) ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/4 "2019-08-10T03:48:12Z")
Ancient peoples used maggots to clean wounds, and as unpleasant as that sounds it was remarkably effective, so much so that modern doctors still use that method in some cases. As of 2004, maggots are allowed by the US FDA for prescription treatment. > **[Maggot therapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maggot_therapy)** > > Maggot therapy (also known as larval therapy) is a type of biotherapy involving the introduction of live, disinfected maggots (fly larvae) into non-healing skin and soft-tissue wounds of a human or other animal for the purpose of cleaning out the necrotic (dead) tissue within a wound (debridement), and disinfection. > There is evidence that maggot therapy may help with wound healing. > Maggot therapy improves healing in chronic ulcers. In diabetic foot ulcers there is tentative evidence of benefit.... ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/5 "2019-08-10T07:02:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And in some other places in some eras some plants did have some efficacies even if they were wrong as to the why. [Doctors knew how to prevent scurvy](https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/opinion/blogs/who-discovered-how-to-prevent-scurvy/11072182.blog?firstPass=false) (which many people used to die from) before they knew about germs. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/6 "2019-08-10T07:59:49Z")
antiseptic compounds have been in use for a long time. Lister’s famous antiseptic, carboxylic acid, is a extract from tar. He found the substance in it that explained why tar was a good wound dressing. Then there are arsenic , mercury, silver, iodine , and similar antiseptics. Did often work on abrasions, fungal infections and chlamydia. Bismuth for stomach ulcers, various herbs for constipation. Quinine to reduce the feelings of nausea , willow bark for the salilcylates , which are a weak form of aspirin (aspirin is the lab made acetyl salilcylate.) ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/7 "2019-08-10T12:43:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And in some other places in some eras some plants did have some efficacies even if they were wrong as to the why. I have two framed pages from old-timey pharmacy ledgers that have the recipes prescribed by physicians. Cannabis is one ingredient that stands out, as is digitalis (from foxglove). Back then, if you took medicine and subsequently felt “different” or had some heart palpitations, you might assume your apoplexy was being correctly treated. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/8 "2019-08-10T12:52:56Z")
I was watching the movie _Captain Blood_ starring Errol Flynn and Olivia De Havilland. It takes place during and after the Monmouth Rebellion of 1635, and in it Dr. Blood; an English physician who as yet has not been promoted to Captain; treats the Governor’s gout symptoms with an unspecified treatment that provides great relief. I was curious about what this might have been and did some research; finding out that the drug colchicine widely used in the treatment of gout is derived from the Autumn Crocus, a plant that has been used to treat joint swelling since as early as 1500 BC. It also grows native in Great Britain and Ireland, so Dr. Blood may well have known of its uses, although whether he could have obtained some in the Caribbean where he treated the governor has not been determined. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/9 "2019-08-10T13:37:15Z")
Apparently they could do some pretty amazing stuff for [arrows in the skull](http://www.medievalists.net/2013/05/prince-hals-head-wound-cause-and-effect/), at least occasionally. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/10 "2019-08-10T15:11:48Z")
Trepanning, although used for the wrong reason, is still used today. Also, I believe there is evidence that the Egyptians routinely performed cataract surgery. For an excellent read on the state of treatment at the cusp of antisepsis, read “The But chering Art,” by Lindsey Fitzharris [https://books.google.com/books/about/The\_Butchering\_Art.html?id=RgsiDgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp\_read\_button](https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Butchering_Art.html?id=RgsiDgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button) ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/11 "2019-08-10T16:21:38Z")
Ahem…“The Butchering Art.” ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/12 "2019-08-10T17:53:27Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Ahem…“The Butchering Art.” Damn, I wanted to read about the Butt Cheering Art. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/13 "2019-08-10T18:16:49Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > Ahem…“The Butchering Art.” You had one scalpel cut too many, there. Better put some honey on it. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/14 "2019-08-11T00:50:51Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Quinine to reduce the feelings of nausea , It was discovered that quinine was effective against malaria in the [17th century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine#History) > [@](#): > > willow bark for the salilcylates , which are a weak form of aspirin (aspirin is the lab made acetyl salilcylate.) Aspirin is not so much stronger than salicylic acid extracted from willowbark, but rather less irritating. With less irritation, it can be taken in larger doses, so thus could be considered as stronger. But if you could tolerate the irritation, you could get the same pain relief from willowbark. Another pre-germ-theory medical practice that was effective was vaccination against small pox, also called [variolation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variolation). That has a long history in Asia and was introduced to England and North America in the 18th century. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/15 "2019-08-11T01:02:48Z")
Let me add that variolation was using a small dose of actual smallpox and hoping for a relatively mild case. This should not be confused with inoculation by cowpox (Jenner). This was, not surprisingly, controversial. But statistically, it was successful, although it caused many deaths. According to Lewis Thomas who was an early 20th century physician, son of a late 19th century physician who remembers accompanying his father on visits, the main thing a doctor did was diagnose and give prognoses, so the patients and their families knew what to expect. Yes, they learned to wash their hands from the germ theory but until the early antibiotics–sulfa drugs–came along there was mostly little they could so. Yes, set bones, stitch up wounds and the like, but not much more. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/16 "2019-08-11T01:16:18Z")
Richard Zack’s _An Underground Education_ has a chapter on the regrettable history of medicine. He blames the medieval Church, claims that physicians were essentially church officials guided more by astrology charts than factual medical texts until surprisingly recently, and contrasted the treatment a knight from the Crusades could get from an Arab physician (common-sense palliative medicine) with the overt quackery he’d get from a European doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/17 "2019-08-11T01:22:36Z")
Kind of an aside, but I’ve sometimes thought that the plague doctor costume ([Plague doctor costume - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor_costume)) probably provided fairly decent biohazard protection, even if the science of the time had the reasoning wrong. ---
**Author:** ![JWT\_Kottekoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@JWT\_Kottekoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JWT_Kottekoe)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/18 "2019-08-11T02:58:00Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > According to Lewis Thomas who was an early 20th century physician, son of a late 19th century physician who remembers accompanying his father on visits, the main thing a doctor did was diagnose and give prognoses, so the patients and their families knew what to expect. I came here to recommend Lewis Thomas, but Hari beat me to it. His essays in books like, “The Lives of a Cell”, are marvelous. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/19 "2019-08-11T03:28:29Z")
On the Lewis and Clark expedition they used mercury to treat a variety of illness including constipation and syphilis. Mercury was a common treatment at the time, sort of any early chemo-therapy, trying to kill the disease before you kill the patient. Don’t think it worked, but the Travelers Rest site for the expedition was identified by traces of mercury in what must have been their latrines. The expedition did not stay in one place long, so identifying other sites is problematic. It is a wonder that all those guys made it to the west coast and back, and for the most part lived long lives. > **[How to Reconstruct Lewis and Clark's Journey: Follow the Mercury-laden...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-reconstruct-lewis-and-clark-journey-follow-mercury-laden-latrine-pits-180956518/)** > > One campsite has been identified using the signatures left by men who took mercury-laced purgative pills to treat constipation and other ills ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2019, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441/20 "2019-08-12T00:48:49Z")
Tonics made from _Galega officinalis_ (aka Goat’s Rue) were used in early Europe and the Middle East to treat this curious condition of persons with an overwhelming urge to urinate and whose urine was sweet. In modern times active ingrediens, chemical variants of guanidine, were identified and found to be abundant in the plant and effective diuretics. A chemical derivative of guanidine is now the most common oral medication for diabetes, Metformin. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-valid-treatments-did-pre-germ-theory-doctors-provide/838441.md?page=2)