# What variation of the American flag did I see? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [May 29, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248 "2024-05-29T22:20:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/1 "2024-05-29T22:20:29Z")
On my way home, I saw a neighbor flying some strange variation of the American flag. The stripes were alternating red and white, but were vertical instead of horizontal and thicker than on the actual flag. The canton featured blue stars on a white background rather than the normal white on blue. For what it’s worth, they were flying a Trump flag as well, with this bizarro American flag flying underneath the Trump flag. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/2 "2024-05-29T22:24:59Z")
> **[Sovereign citizen movement | Denominations and symbols](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement#Denominations_and_symbols)** > > Not all members of the movement describe themselves as "sovereign citizens", and some movement members actually regard the term "sovereign citizen" as an oxymoron. Sovereign citizens may prefer to label themselves as "state nationals", "constitutionalists", "freemen", "natural people", "living people", "private persons", or as people "seeking the truth" or "living on the land". The name "American State National" (ASN) became popular among sovereign citizens in the e The sovereign citizen movement... [![](https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/images/2023-12/sovereign%20citizen%20flag%20of%20peace.png) ](https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files/images/2023-12/sovereign%20citizen%20flag%20of%20peace.png) [https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/sovereign-citizen-movement-united-states](https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/sovereign-citizen-movement-united-states) ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/3 "2024-05-29T22:33:02Z")
That’s the one. Thank you for finding the answer so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/4 "2024-05-29T23:53:47Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > [Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement#Denominations_and_symbols) _“Not all members of the movement describe themselves as “sovereign citizens”, and some movement members actually regard the term “sovereign citizen” as an oxymoron. Sovereign citizens may prefer to label themselves as “state nationals”, “constitutionalists”, “freemen”, “natural people”, “living people”, “private persons”, or as people “seeking the truth” or “living on the land”.”_ They left out kucoos and nutjobs. Though in their defense, they do make [highly entertaining videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4btcrLFwik) when explaining their reasonings for not having to adhere to the law to cops or judges. . ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/5 "2024-05-29T23:58:02Z")
I love seeing the police roll up on them. On that OnPatrol show. Guess who always loses and gets handcuffed? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/6 "2024-05-30T01:40:38Z")
They might seem to be highly entertaining, but the facet is they are extremely dangerous. People have been killed by these nutjobs. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/7 "2024-05-30T01:55:02Z")
That should be _fact_, not _facet_. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/8 "2024-05-30T01:57:45Z")
It appears to have evolved from the flag of the US Customs and Coast Guard, with the idea being that vertical stripes are a civil flag, horizontal stripes are a military flag, imposed by the perfidious Union government on the poor downtrodden south, just because they had the temerity to rebel. Seems to have come from a passage in _The Scarlet Letter_ by Hawthorne: > "…here, with a view from its front windows adown this not very enlivening prospect, and thence across the harbour, stands a spacious edifice of brick. From the loftiest point of its roof, during precisely three and a half hours of each forenoon, floats or droops, in breeze or calm, the banner of the republic; but with the thirteen stripes turned vertically, instead of horizontally, and thus indicating that a civil, and not a military, post of Uncle Sam’s government is here established. More info here: [http://www.loeser.us/flags/american\_note\_2.html](http://www.loeser.us/flags/american_note_2.html) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/9 "2024-05-30T02:01:28Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > More info here: > > [Historical Flags of Our Ancestors - The United States Civil Flag Myth](http://www.loeser.us/flags/american_note_2.html) Excellent cite! ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/10 "2024-05-30T16:35:26Z")
We have a whole sovereign citizen thread here, and it is both horrifying and entertaining. > [@Sovereign Citizens-- Please tell me this is fake](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sovereign-citizens-please-tell-me-this-is-fake/769572/1033): > > Man attends Zoom court while driving. On a suspended license. Judge Simpson is not amused. [[Man with suspended licence joins court call while driving] ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE3LzxD3hYk&t=3s/) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/11 "2024-05-30T17:12:49Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Seems to have come from a passage in _The Scarlet Letter_ by Hawthorne: Wait, holup… so they base their beliefs on a snippet of fiction!? Oh, brother. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/12 "2024-05-30T17:38:37Z")
This sort of flag (like the pickup trucks flying a bunch of American, Trump, and “Fuck Biden” flags) always reminds me of this: [![](https://newbeautifulera.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gary-larsen.png) ](https://newbeautifulera.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/gary-larsen.png) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/13 "2024-05-30T17:44:41Z")
Bingo ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/14 "2024-05-30T17:47:01Z")
Art imitating reality! [![](https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Ernie-Wayne-terTelgte-300x225.jpg) ](https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Ernie-Wayne-terTelgte-300x225.jpg) > **[Montana's 'Natural Man' Defies Courts, Sets Up Another Rural 'Patriot' Showdown](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2014/05/01/montanas-natural-man-defies-courts-sets-another-rural-patriot-showdown)** ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-variation-of-the-american-flag-did-i-see/1002248/15 "2024-05-30T20:30:39Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Guess who always loses and gets handcuffed? From watching _Cops_, the guy without a shirt on.