# What was \[i\]Matrix\[/i\] based upon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471 "2003-08-20T16:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/1 "2003-08-20T16:30:18Z")
Searched the 'Net to no avail and don’t have a home copy so could someone please tell me which book or short story _The Matrix_ was based upon? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/2 "2003-08-20T16:41:17Z")
I was under the impression that it’s an original work of The Wachowski Brothers. It may be as similar to some short story as _Total Recall_ is to “We Can Remember It For You Wholesale”, but I don’t think anybody claims it’s based on another story _per se_. Where did you hear that it was? If you find out, let me know. I’m dying to know what happens in _Revolutions_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/3 "2003-08-20T16:46:10Z")
They took Total Recall, Dark City, and eXistenZ and threw them in a blender, then proclaimed it to be something fresh and new :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/4 "2003-08-20T17:01:15Z")
I can see where you’re coming from with _Dark City_, but come on. _Total Recall_? They’re not that similar. I didn’t see _eXistenZ_, but it came out the same year as _The Matrix_. Are you sure the blending wasn’t the other way around? ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/5 "2003-08-20T17:12:11Z")
Actually, now that I look at the release dates, they came out within a month and a half of each other -eXistentZ feb 16th, Matrix mar 31st (and even the Matrix doesn’t feel like it was written and shot in a month) so they probably didn’t influence each other. I still think it blended Total Recall, Dark City, and an Energizer commericial to make the Matrix, though. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/6 "2003-08-20T17:20:54Z")
I think _The Matrix_ was probably well into the writing stage at least by the time _Dark City_ came out (06 Aug 2002). That’s only nine months before it was released. ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/7 "2003-08-20T17:58:19Z")
There are also **alot** of similarities to a Japanese anime film called _Ghost in the Shell_. It’s actually a bit spooky to see how much the W Brothers lifted from that. (But then again _Ghost in the Shell_ lifts ideas from William Gibson novels.) ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/8 "2003-08-20T17:59:29Z")
The actual concept of the Matrix itself reminded me of a part of The Celestial Locomotive, a fairly obscure and old science fiction novel. A lot of the remnants of humanity were plugged into a virtual world simulation and partied away as semigods while their bodies remained in the real world, naked, hairless and oddly baby-like. More Matrix-like than I make it sound, actually. It’s doubtful they read it, though. It’s a fairly obscure novel. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/9 "2003-08-20T18:30:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Achernar \* > \*\*I think _The Matrix_ was probably well into the writing stage at least by the time _Dark City_ came out (06 Aug 2002). That’s only nine months before it was released. \*\* You’re normally one of the more rational posters here, so please lie down until this fit goes away. _Dark City_ came out in 1998. _The Matrix_ came out in 1999. And anybody who has seen both understands perfectly that the latter ripped off the former. I don’t care how short the time period was between their releases. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/10 "2003-08-20T19:28:02Z")
The Wachowski Brothers were also allegedly influenced by the Grant Morrison DC comic _The Invisibles_. I’m currently into it, and I can see at least some superficial similarities between King Mob and Morpheus, Jack Frost and Neo, and the way the Invisibles operate and the way Morpheus’ cyber-commandos operate. But let’s be fair. I’m not a fan of **The Matrix** , but I don’t think the Wachoswskis are any more guilty of “ripping off” their inspirations than anybody else. That’s just the way art operates: you start off by taking a bunch of texts (or paintings or songs or whatever) you like–that are the reason you are making art in the first place, actually–and you squash them all together to make something that fits your aesthetic. Along the way, you reinterpret (or, in some cases, misinterpret) your sources and accidentally stumble into your own unique voice. **The Matrix** is not, to my knowledge, a direct adaptation or ripoff of anything. It has similarities to other movies and books, and if you dig hard enough you can figure out what their inspirations were, but the whole package is fairly well done and original. Wait a minute, did I just defend **The Matrix**? I guess that means monkeys will start to fly out of my ass any second now… ---
**Author:** ![rmbnxs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9e5f3/32.png) [@rmbnxs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rmbnxs)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/11 "2003-08-20T19:37:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AcidKid \* > \*\*…someone please tell me which book or short story _The Matrix_ was based upon? \*\* It’s not based on a book or short story. It’s based on one college freshman’s experience attending two lectures in a Philosophy 101 class. He spent one of the lectures sleeping. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/12 "2003-08-20T19:57:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*You’re normally one of the more rational posters here, so please lie down until this fit goes away. > > _Dark City_ came out in 1998. _The Matrix_ came out in 1999. > > And anybody who has seen both understands perfectly that the latter ripped off the former. I don’t care how short the time period was between their releases. \*\* :rolleyes: Just because apples and oranges are both fruits, that doesn’t mean that you have any idea what you are talking about. Unless, of course, you’ve heard an interview or some other confirmation from the brothers W where they borrowed ideas for The Matrix from (and since they refuse all interviews, I’ll just assume you’re talking out of your ass). ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/13 "2003-08-20T20:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > You’re normally one of the more rational posters here, so please lie down until this fit goes away. > > _Dark City_ came out in 1998. _The Matrix_ came out in 1999. > > And anybody who has seen both understands perfectly that the latter ripped off the former. I don’t care how short the time period was between their releases. As big a fan of _The Matrix_ as I am, _Dark City_ is possibly my favorite film. As far as I can tell, there are three big similarities between them that might lead you to this opinion, and I don’t think any of them were critical enough to say that it “ripped off”. If you have others, go ahead and say them; I’d be very interested, because like I said, I love both films. The first is simply the _noiry_ feel, which can be found in a great deal of earlier films. The second is the humans-in-a-jar idea, in unwitting captivity. While I think that both films executed it very well, it was for very different purposes and anyway, this is hardly a new concept. I hear a lot of people referring to the Cave allegory in _The Republic_ as inspiration for this. The third is the protagonist discovering and executing super powers. But seriously, how many dozens of stories can you think of that have “The Chosen One” or some similar concept? ---
**Author:** ![transitionality](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@transitionality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/transitionality)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/14 "2003-08-21T03:55:31Z")
It’s based on an original screenplay. With that said, it totally rips off Rene Descartes’ Meditations on First Philosophy for the philosophical framework, and Ghost in the Shell for aesthetics. [Here](http://www.geocities.com/tacobelll/matrixgits/) is a good comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/15 "2003-08-21T04:09:26Z")
That is a pretty interesting comparison, and there definitely are strong similarities. The green lettering is a good point, as are the neck plugs. But a few of the things that got a Conspiracy Rating of 8 are pretty weak, IMHO. They both have a truck flip over? They both have a chase scene in a crowded area? They both end with a panorama of the city? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/16 "2003-08-21T06:27:44Z")
While I in no way believe that _The Matrix_ is a direct rip-off of _Dark City_ (or any other work, for that matter), it seems to me that the prime similarity is the whole bit about “reality is not what it appears to be”. Or is that what you meant by “humans in a jar”? Now, if the Matrix got rebooted every night, and everyone’s memories got reset, then that would be a ripoff of _Dark City_. Either that, or a ripoff of the much earlier short story “The Tunnel under the World”. But even if it were a ripoff, so what? I mean, if Shakespeare wrote more than three original works, it’s news to me (and I’m stretching to even think of three). ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/17 "2003-08-21T14:40:07Z")
There’s a shitload of William Gibson’s _Neuromancer_ in _The Matrix_, from a worldwide network (ironically also called the matrix) where the protagonists are semi-gods, to a scruffy, hidden ‘underworld’ named Zion (also populated by Jamacian/African peoples), to a crazy old coot at the very top of the chain (The Architect in _The Matrix_, the Tessier-Ashpool codger in _Neuromancer_) Hell, we could argue the Trinity is Molly, though a hell of a lot dumber. Morpheus strikes me as an Armitage type. Cypher is Riviera, Agent Smith is Wintermute… Hmmm. Are we sure _The Matrix_ isn’t based on anything? ---
**Author:** ![Wumpus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8c91f0/32.png) [@Wumpus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wumpus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/18 "2003-08-21T15:30:29Z")
rmbnxs, that’s the best summary of The Matrix I’ve ever read! 🙂 The Matrix is based on a zillion “Is reality real?” science fiction books and stories over the years. I’ll just toss out Phillip K. Dick’s Ubik (1969) and Stanislaus Lem’s The Futurological Congress (1971) as examples. In the world of science fiction, this is well-trodden territory, especially since the rise of cyberpunk in the 80s. I dare say you could come up with hundreds of “people are in a computer simulation they think is reality” stories written before the Matrix came out. Of course, most of the public doesn’t read science fiction _or_ stay awake during their Philosophy 101 classes, which is why The Matrix seemed somewhat novel at the time. People always mention Dark City as a precursor to The Matrix, but for some reason they never mention another, more popular movie about a man who discovers his reality isn’t real – namely The Truman Show (1998). But of course it doesn’t have guns or explosions in it, so it doesn’t count. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/19 "2003-08-21T16:50:37Z")
People don’t mention _The Truman Show_ - one of the few truly excellent science fiction movies - as a precursor to _The Matrix_ because ideas by themselves are not meaningful as indicators. _Dark City_ has the exact look and feel of _The Matrix_ a year before that movie came out. It’s that similarity of look and feel - far more important in movies than in stories - that makes _The Matrix_ feel so derivative. And **Achernar** you had _Dark City_ coming out in _2002_. That was my point. **Chronos** , the originality is overrated argument has come up on these boards before so there is no reason to rehash it here, except to note that I am on the side that says infusing the new, fresh, and different into the basic existing plots and characters is the true basis of originality. What does horrify me is the touchiness of the fan base of the Matrix movies - see **Munch’s** post for an example - when any aspect of the movies is called into question. _The Truman Show_ meets my definition for originality; neither Matrix movie does. As a script, the first movie was mediocre at best. The sequel had the worst script it’s been my misfortune to encounter in several years: bad on every conceivable level. It’s my opinion that searching for literary precursors to the movies is pointless. The Matrix movies are derivative of other movies to a far greater degree than of science fiction books. The brothers may have read a few books, but their sensibilities are purely visual. This makes for movies that appeal to a large audience even if their “philosophy” is risible to anyone who has ever read a philosophical book. Hope this one goes through. I tried last night to post but kept getting the Netscape connection timed out message. I think the machines didn’t like my message. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471/20 "2003-08-21T17:24:07Z")
I don’t think that _Dark City_ and _The Matrix_ had the exact same look and feel. I also think there’s probably a lot more to both films than you realize. _Dark City_ was just that - a dark 1950s dense _noir_ urban setting. There wasn’t anything apocalyptic or dystopian or even futuristic about it. Even the alien technology was pre-electric in its look and feel. The city at night is exactly what it was. Aside from some very contrasting and evocative imagery with Shell Beach, _Dark City_ did exactly one setting, and it did it amazingly well. Although there were some scenes in _The Matrix_ which were in a similar setting - the car scene with Neo, Trinity, and Switch, or Neo meets Morpheus, or the subway fight scene - the vast majority of the film looked nothing like _Dark City_. You had the obsequious cell phones and computers, unlike the mid-century technology in _Dark City_. You had the futuristic post-apocalypse, and the hovercraft. You had the office scene, the dojo scene, the lobby scene, and the helicopter scene, all of which looked nothing like anything from _Dark City_. You had lots and lots of guns, whereas _Dark City_ had two handguns, and several knives. Costumes were very different: **everyone** in _Dark City_ wore a long coat, and most of them wore hats. Music was industrial in one movie and techno in the other. The special effects in the two films were nothing alike. In _The Matrix_, you never saw the stars once, whereas this was such an important visual in the previous film. If _The Matrix_ was out to copy _Dark City_, where were the creeping spirals of insanity? Where were the haunted flashbacks? Where was the frenetic pacing? The creepy and ghastly bad guys? The lightning? The cigarettes? Chracters based on Bumstead, Schreber, and Emma? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-i-matrix-i-based-upon/196471.md?page=2)