# What was opposition to Hitler like in Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 28, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388 "2017-01-28T14:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/21 "2017-01-28T22:52:17Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I loathe Trump. This is no secret, but I think comparing Trump to Hitler is not the right approach for two reasons: > > 1 - It prompts _eye rolls_ because the so-and-so is Hitler has been done to death. > 2 - He will never be identical to Hitler. Hitler was Hitler. He did what he did and unless Trump does the exact same thing you’ll will always have been saying “No no no it isn’t the same” or “No no no Trump hasn’t done X”. > > In the thread similar to this on recognizing fascism I express a few things to look for: > > This is a bit more objective than trying to compare a specific individual which if fraught with peril. I do see your point, and it makes sense, but ironically, that could be a problem. The subtlety and rationality of it are lost on the rabid, ignorant consumers of reality TV. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/22 "2017-01-28T23:01:16Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I do see your point, and it makes sense, but ironically, that could be a problem. The subtlety and rationality of it are lost on the rabid, ignorant consumers of reality TV. I’ve lamented about this on Facebook and to some degree here. I don’t know what to do about willful ignorance. This post-truth world is very upsetting to me. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/23 "2017-01-28T23:16:43Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Hitler became Chancellor on Jan 30, 1933. > 29 days later, on Feb 27,1933, the Reichstag Fire Decree which nullified civil liberties was signed (by senile old von Hindenberg). > And 29 days after that, on Mar 22, 1933, the first concentration camp was opened at Dachau “for political prisoners”. . Avoiding Trump completely, these are the significant dates. Prior to 1933 you certainly have large swathes of the German population vigorously opposing the Nazis. Indeed, it’s often seen as one of the weaknesses of Weimar that you’d had open street-fighting between the Communists and the Nazis. People were prepared to get bloody. Significant demographics, including cities like Berlin, were utterly opposed to the rise of Hitler. Which included publishing satirical takedowns. The brief period between January 1933 and the Reichstag fire is complicated. Hitler pretends to be a normal Chancellor. Granted with crackdowns on the leftwing press and an emboldened SA heartily beating opponents with extra enthusiasm. The Reichstag fire then changes everything. Hitler declares an emergency and essentially assumes dictatorial powers. That’s the point from which you can then be punished merely for making jokes. One story about that shift was the one told by Klaus Fuchs - most famous as the Soviet spy in Los Alamos. A student Communist, who’d previously been seriously beat up by the SA, he’d continued to distribute Party newspapers even after the ban when Hitler had come to power. But he learnt of the Reichstag fire by reading a newspaper on a train the morning after. He immediately surreptitiously removed the Party badge he was wearing. Then fled into exile. So, provided you were brave enough, you could even flaunt you Party adherence into March 1933. But, after the fire, essentially all opposition is suppressed. Including people making jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/24 "2017-01-29T00:01:22Z")
> [@bonzer](#): > > So, provided you were brave enough, you could even flaunt you Party adherence into March 1933. But, after the fire, essentially all opposition is suppressed. Including people making jokes. Then we’d better be sure no one burns something like the White House down in protest, or this will be no joke. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/25 "2017-01-29T00:08:24Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’ve lamented about this on Facebook and to some degree here. I don’t know what to do about willful ignorance. This post-truth world is very upsetting to me. I feel your pain. Literally. I’ve had a knot in my stomach since the election. Setting a G.I. doc week after next. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![MoodIndigo1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@MoodIndigo1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MoodIndigo1)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/26 "2017-01-29T00:56:02Z")
I’ve found this article to be very interesting on the topic of Hitler, and how he was perceived by the American press and some German people. > **[Early Warnings: How American Journalists Reported the Rise of Hitler](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/03/early-warnings-how-american-journalists-reported-the-rise-of-hitler/254146/)** > > Andrew Nagorski, author of the new book Hitlerland, discusses the way Americans saw -- and wrote about -- the early days of the Third Reich. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/27 "2017-01-29T01:56:55Z")
Here’s a source that gives a pretty good and concise general rundown: > **[The History Place - Rise of Hitler: Hitler Runs for President](http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/runs.htm)** > > Part 20 of a complete online history, The Rise of Adolf Hitler - From Unknown to Dictator of Germany, at The History Place. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/28 "2017-01-29T02:23:49Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I’ve lamented about this on Facebook and to some degree here. I don’t know what to do about willful ignorance. This post-truth world is very upsetting to me. Comparing Trump to Hitler is willful ignorance. Hitlers mission in life was to lead the German people to what he considered their glorious destiny. He didn’t pursue wealth, women or fame. Hitler openly told the world what he would do in Mein Kampf. Hitler consolidated all power around himself. Trump does none of these things. We live in an age of historical ignorance. The net has given everyone what is essentially an equally powerful voice. Their is no modern leader who can be compared to Hitler because Hitler appeared in about the only time period he could achieve power. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/29 "2017-01-29T10:54:55Z")
To me, any American dictator will come from the left. I mean if Obama had decided to stay on another 4 years and simply ignored the constitution, what would have stopped him? Not the DNC. Not the left. Not the college students. Not the press. And if he decided thru mandate to throw some of the opposition in jail for say, being against gay rights, the left would have applauded. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/30 "2017-01-29T11:30:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > To me, any American dictator will come from the left. I mean if Obama had decided to stay on another 4 years and simply ignored the constitution, what would have stopped him? Not the DNC. Not the left. Not the college students. Not the press. > > And if he decided thru mandate to throw some of the opposition in jail for say, being against gay rights, the left would have applauded. I disagree both with your general idea and with your specific example. Obama wouldn’t have done that, because he is a man whose core values would not permit it. Your example is like saying, “What if the Pope decided to open a chain of abortion clinics?” A dictator wouldn’t come from the left, because the left is all about tolerance, inclusion, and protection of individual rights. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/31 "2017-01-29T12:10:46Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > A dictator wouldn’t come from the left, because the left is all about tolerance, inclusion, and protection of individual rights. Unless you disagree with them. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/32 "2017-01-29T12:23:59Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > One of the big differences between Hitler and Trump is that Hitler tended to respond to adversaries… poorly. I.e. with violence. And he was allowed to primarily due to the Enabling Act which effectively removed any any check against Hitler’s power. It was a bit more pro-active than that implies, and something that happened from the outset: violence against perceived enemies was, to a fair degree, as much the point as the windy rhetoric, not only as a means of creating a presence and a sense of action/movement, but as a demonstration of power, much as fascist parties elsewhere set out to disrupt leftwing meetings and to intimidate Jews and anyone else they disapproved of. Don’t forget the attempted Munich coup of 1923, and note that (notwithstanding the parliamentary manoeuvres that got Hitler into the Chancellery) the takeover was always characterised as a revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/33 "2017-01-29T15:58:09Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Unless you disagree with them. Everything that Obama did during the last 8 years that came from a political motivation, even the worst of it, absolutely pales in comparison to what Trump has done in the first week. To say that the left is capable of ignoring the rights of those they politically disagree with is a huge false equivalency. The equivalent would be turning back planes full of Trump supporters at the border. Or going in with guns blazing against _actual armed insurrectionists_ instead of simply dispersing them and arresting the leaders. Or openly proclaiming that they would do everything in their power to make Trump’s presidency fail (instead, every Congressperson I am aware of says they will support his proposals that are good for the nation.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/34 "2017-01-29T16:59:49Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Unless you disagree with them. No, a dictator wouldn’t come from the left at all, because, by definition, leftist principles are against forcible control of people’s lives and minds. Your agreement or disagreement with them is completely irrelevant. The principles held by leaders on the left are not affected by whether people agree with the principles. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/35 "2017-01-30T06:43:57Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No, a dictator wouldn’t come from the left at all, because, by definition, leftist principles are against forcible control of people’s lives and minds. Your agreement or disagreement with them is completely irrelevant. The principles held by leaders on the left are not affected by whether people agree with the principles. I’m firmly pro-democratic and pro-liberal and anti-Trump, and I think you’re being a bit naive here. I think the real danger of fascism is not in the person of Trump but of Steve Bannon. And there’s no reason that someone like that couldn’t exist on the left. Greed and ego and venality and evil and stupidity aren’t a right-wing monopoly. Obama would never become a dictator. But neither would John McCain. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/36 "2017-01-30T08:42:56Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > No, a dictator wouldn’t come from the left at all, because, by definition, leftist principles are against forcible control of people’s lives and minds. Try telling that to a Stalinist. Or a Trotskyite. Or a Leninist. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/37 "2017-01-30T09:33:02Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Remember, in the 1930s, no one could imagine The Holocaust being a possibility. Even the T4 euthanasia program had to be rolled back because of public resistance. It was only war and captured territories that allowed the real horrors of Nazi Germany to happen. Remember that none of the extermination camps nor Einsatzgruppen actions took place on German soil. Uh…Dachau? Bergen-Belsen? Buchenwald? Ebensee? (By no means an exhaustive list of those found _in_ Germany.) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/38 "2017-01-30T09:43:07Z")
Trump is much more like Il Duce, hence the appropriation of the Il Douche epithet. The comparison to Hitler is actually in the way both came to power, through the (on one hand) very real economic hardships Germany went through post-WWI thanks to the Treaty of Versailles and the imagined ones Trump touted and cashed in on last year, and the perceived inability to achieve anything by the Weimar government and ours. ETA: Man, that was one long, run-on sentence. But grammatically correct. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/39 "2017-01-30T11:54:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Uh…Dachau? Bergen-Belsen? Buchenwald? Ebensee? (By no means an exhaustive list of those found _in_ Germany.) None of those were extermination camps ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388/40 "2017-01-30T11:56:06Z")
Ftr…they were Majdenek, Auschwitz Birkenau, Treblinka, Chelmno and Sobibor. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-opposition-to-hitler-like-in-germany/778388.md?page=3)