# What was so bad about Clinton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568 "2003-01-24T00:00:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/201 "2003-02-03T11:30:16Z")
Since the thread deals with some people’s hatred of Clinton (purported by the OP to be irrational), I fail to see how it’s a personal attack to point out examples of it. And I sincerely hope my explanations in my last couple of posts above aren’t too ‘stupid’ for you to follow. 😃 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*Yeah, and since you seem to wish to resort to personal attack - I’ll just forget the OP and resort to your blind stupidity. > > (snip) > > \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/202 "2003-02-03T11:42:56Z")
Who gives a rats ass about you. We WERE talking about Clinton. You should have made it clear. A doctoral student that has not even learned to communicate effectively in writing - you sure that you were not asked to get out? BTW, if you did a quick search on Clintons record, you should have found the Associated Newspapers article about his trouble in 1969. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/203 "2003-02-03T11:45:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by F. U. Shakespeare \* > \*\*Since the thread deals with some people’s hatred of Clinton (purported by the OP to be irrational), I fail to see how it’s a personal attack to point out examples of it. > > And I sincerely hope my explanations in my last couple of posts above aren’t too ‘stupid’ for you to follow. 😃 \*\* No…The OP asked why:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/204 "2003-02-03T14:27:54Z")
Look, I really, really really don’t understand this “kicked out” of Oxford thing. I think it is a perfect example of the stupidity and near insanity engendered by the hatred of Clinton brought up in the OP. It sounds like some here regard Rhodes scholarship at Oxford as some kind of four-year, degree granting program. It is not. It is an opportunity to study at Oxford for a term of two years. Optionally, if the scholar wishes to stay for a third year, he or she may apply to do so and may be accepted to remain for an extra year. It appears that Clinton left after his two years to go to law school at Yale. Please read [here](http://www.rhodesscholar.org/) about the Rhodes scholar program if you don’t understand what it is. To look at this situation and say, “Clinton left halfway through his studies at Oxford. He must have been kicked out. He was kicked out because he sexually molested or raped someone” is so wrong, and requires such a suspension of rational thought that it represents both stupidity and mental impairment. Don’t be stupid. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/205 "2003-02-03T14:48:14Z")
**B & I** , you have once again sidestepped the point in favor of personal attacks on me. In the larger context of hatred of Clinton, we were discussing the credibility of a charge that he left Oxford because he raped someone. In support of this charge, you asserted that you didn’t know anyone who had changed college curricula when everything was going OK. I informed you that I was one such person, which contradicted your assertion. If you don’t give a ‘rat’s ass’ about this, you are saying that \* you don’t care about any facts that contradict the opinion you bring to this debate.\* Which doesn’t surprise me in the least. I will respond if and only if you address this long-overdue point. And try to keep a lid on the personal attacks – this is Great Debates, not the Pit. I’ve been more than patient with you on that. ---
**Author:** ![gex\_gex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@gex\_gex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gex_gex)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/206 "2003-02-03T15:15:00Z")
**Blown & Injected** , you seem to be having problems with comprehension of my posts. I’m not sure why, I thought I was stating things fairly clearly. Hence, I will break your post down and respond to it very carefully so you will not miss any important points that I raise. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > _Originally posted by gex gex_ > > > \*\*Oh yeah, he just packed-up and left because \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, humm why? You tell me since you seem to refuse to believe your beloved Clinton could be guilty of something. > > > > I don’t know. Many college students “pack up and leave” before their degree is completed. I don’t assume that the reason for this in their cases was an allegation of rape. Why should I believe such a thing in the case of Bill Clinton? > > > > There could be any number of reasons why Clinton left, and frankly, I don’t care. He was never my president, and I am not a Democrat. However, I do think that it’s fairly low to make such serious allegations of a person based on what amounts to rumour and gossip. Your cite has no more credibility than had you told us that a friend of a friend told you that Bill Clinton dyes his hair. > > > > To make an allegation about any person with so little proof is disgracefully nasty. To accuse someone of rape with such scanty evidence is downright despicable, and could only be done by someone without any morals at all.\*\* > > Well I found a newspaper article, provided a cite, and you still refuse to accept. The see no evil comment earlier in the thread sure seems appropirate. If you will look back to my first post on the previous page, you will find that I bolded the sections of your cite that robbed it of all its credibility. I will do you a favour and repeat this so that you do not even have to go to the effort of going back and checking what I’ve already posted. > [@](#): > > _From your cite_ > **The allegation** … > > … **It is claimed** the future president met the 19 year old in an Oxford pub when he was a Rhodes Scholar in 1969. **A retired State Department official** is **quoted by the website** confirming that the rape took place and saying: "There is no doubt in my mind that this woman suffered severe emotional trauma. Firstly, you are insisting that the accusation levelled at Clinton is gospel truth. The article you quote (but do not link to) only refers to it as an “allegation,” and a “claim.” The person making the claim is not named in the article, casting serious doubts on its credibility and the article you quoted was not even reporting on information gained first hand by the reporter, but is instead reporting on an accusation made on a website. This website appears to be somewhat obscure, is not one of the major news sources (and hence cannot be readily believed) and appears to be considerably partisan in its portrayal of the news. You did not link to either article, but instead quoted an article about another article. The only published record of the alleged rape that you have given us was by you in your post on the page previous. Your supposed cite has nothing backing it up, and is certainly not grounds for believing your repeated assertion that Clinton raped a girl while attending Oxford. > [@](#): > > It is also laughable to hear you comment on morals!!! - Even Clinton lovers eventually admit that he ranked low on the morals scale. I’m not sure what your point is here. I am not a Clinton lover, as I said in one of my prior posts, I am not even an American and I think that he had good and bad points. The only time I mentioned morality was in commenting on your seeming lack of it, by (and I feel I am repeating myself ad nauseum here) making such a serious allegation of someone _without proof_. Is that clear to you, or should I say it slower? > [@](#): > > Well now, since you attacked the cite provided, and provided no reason except for your own I don’t like it rant, My “I don’t like it rant” was about the cite you posted. As I explained above, it is worthless. > [@](#): > > the ball is now in your court to provide evidence to support your assertion that the cite is not credible. See above, see previous page. > [@](#): > > Why don’t you start with the testimony of the AR State Police and work back to the college days Nowhere in your post can I find any testimony of the AR State Police. Maybe you’d like to repeat it. All I can find is a mention of an unnamed “retired State Department Official” > [@](#): > > YOU say it is possible he just packed up and left because lots of college do that. The only one’s I know of that did that, did it because things were not good. I do not know of anybody that was doing great that just packed up and left after years of good success. Neither I nor Bill Clinton can be held responsible for your limited experience. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/207 "2003-02-03T20:23:19Z")
gex gex You are confused. I quoted part of an article and cited that article. There was a link to another news site and you seem to have totally lost it because you do not seem to be able to follow or regard a cite as credible unless there is a link you can follow on the net. Sorry you could not comprehend the point to asking you to support your assertions. That is what the AR S.P. was about - they also seem to have testified as to Clinton’s sexual offenses. AND FU my “persoanl attack” was in retaliation to YOUR attack on me - so don’t give me the save it for the pit crap - YOU STARTED IT!!! You also do not provide any credible reason for why one would complete nearly all of a program then quit. You just mentioned that, with no proof, that you have done such a dumb thing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/208 "2003-02-03T22:33:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by andros \* > \*\*Folks, please remember that in defending President Clinton’s possibly illegal or unethical actions, “Other people did it too” is **not** a valid argument. \*\* Wrongo. The example of Bill commiting “adultery” is a perfect example. Sure, you might be able to take the moral high ground & say “I can’t respect any man who doesn’t respect his wedding vows”. And that’s fine. But then when dudes point our that many of the dudes in the Oval Office did the same thing- then YOU gotta tell US why you despise Clinton but “Like Ike”. Note that there was a suit claming Bush jr slept around also- I suppose that this means he should resign “toot-sweet” as Cece would say? What the Clinton haters must do is justify their special hatred of Bill. Now, if you despise every politico who used his power to get laid- well then you are in for a LOT of hating. Then, really, it isn’t Bill you hate, it’s middle-aged powerful white dudes getting blow jobs because women adore power. In that case- why just Bill? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/209 "2003-02-03T22:57:07Z")
**B & I** , both of your statements below are false. You are either forgetting things that don’t support your arguments, or deliberately ignoring them. About what I’d expect from someone who treats legitimate criticism as an attack. Get a grip. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\* > > FU my “persoanl attack” was in retaliation to YOUR attack on me - so don’t give me the save it for the pit crap - YOU STARTED IT!!! > > You also do not provide any credible reason for why one would complete nearly all of a program then quit. You just mentioned that, with no proof, that you have done such a dumb thing yourself. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/210 "2003-02-03T23:23:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by F. U. Shakespeare \* > \*\*This is the whole problem **B & I** – when the topic is Clinton, your blind hatred renders you incapable anything – apparently, of even reading a simple post correctly. > > ## quote: > > Originally posted by F. U. Shakespeare > Once again, life imitates art. From ‘Animal House’: > > Bluto Blutarsky (John Belushi): Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell, no! > > Otter: Germans? > > ## Boon: Forget it, he’s rolling. > > \*\* Yep, FU not taking shots at at the poster :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/211 "2003-02-03T23:24:47Z")
rationalized as "legitimate criticism " ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/212 "2003-02-04T00:56:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\*"The people look to the President to get cues on what is acceptable. " > > If they do, they’re damned fools. > > Presidents are calculating, manipulative, egotists who would, by and large, sell their grandmothers to win office. They would have never risen to the heights they have by being any different, and, by that measure, they can be said to be successful in their chosen profession (such as it is). \*\* AMEN. I want to gag every time somebody says that the president or any politician is to be used as moral example. Sweet Christ, I have trouble thinking of a worse profession to choose moral leaders from. It’s like asking Michael Jackson to babysit your kids. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/213 "2003-02-04T01:19:45Z")
> [@](#): > > You also do not provide any credible reason for why one would complete nearly all of a program then quit. You just mentioned that, with no proof, that you have done such a dumb thing yourself. Once more unto the breach… Which part of Rhodes scholarship at Oxford being two years duration did you not understand? Please review my post above for further information and a link. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/214 "2003-02-04T02:02:30Z")
Both _perfectly legitimate criticisms._ i) You read my post wrong (no one else seems to have); you hate Clinton. ii) You were definitely ‘on a roll’, ala Blutarsky (_once again, you’ve conveniently forgotten that your post immediately preceding questioned Clinton’s scholastic achievements, and never backed it up._) Just because it points out your shortcomings doesn’t mean it’s a potshot. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*Yep, FU not taking shots at at the poster :smack: \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/215 "2003-02-04T02:09:29Z")
Okay, a cite ([Oxford University Press Release, 2001](http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/rai/6.shtml)) and a quote, and I wash my hands of this bullshit (I swear I will!). > [@](#): > > **Clinton and Oxford** > Former President of the United States, William Jefferson Clinton, was a Rhodes Scholar at University College from 1968 to 1970, where he studied for a BPhil in Politics. He came to Oxford from Georgetown University. > He began studying PPE (Politics, Philosophy and Economics) but soon switched to a postgraduate course in Politics. His tutors reported that they were pleased with his progress, adding that he was an intelligent and hard-working student. In August 1970 he won a place at Yale Law School and decided to continue his studies there, rather than return to Oxford. > He played an active part in College life during his time at Oxford. He took up Rugby, playing in the scrum for the second XV; he played the saxophone; and was a member of a number of College dining clubs. > The Dean of Graduates at the time, Mr George Cawkwell, summed up his Oxford career as follows: ‘Plenty of character and good sense. He also enjoyed Oxford and was well liked by all.’ Of course, with a guy like Cawkwell vouching for him, who can say anything!😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/216 "2003-02-04T06:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by F. U. Shakespeare \* > \*\*Both _perfectly legitimate criticisms._ > > i) You read my post wrong (no one else seems to have); you hate Clinton. > > ii) You were definitely ‘on a roll’, ala Blutarsky (_once again, you’ve conveniently forgotten that your post immediately preceding questioned Clinton’s scholastic achievements, and never backed it up._) > > Just because it points out your shortcomings doesn’t mean it’s a potshot. \*\* My confusion was only possible to your poor writing. I forgot nothing. You went off on a rant, refusing to accept the Associtated Newspaper cite. The roll as you call it was made up in your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/217 "2003-02-04T06:56:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hentor the Barbarian \* > \*\*Okay, a cite ([Oxford University Press Release, 2001](http://www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/rai/6.shtml)) and a quote, and I wash my hands of this bullshit (I swear I will!). > > Of course, with a guy like Cawkwell vouching for him, who can say anything!😃 \*\* Well even if you do not accept the Associated Newspapers claim (NOT MY CLAIM - I just did a short search) that accused him of rape, or attempted rape, your own post says HE DID NOT COMPLETE HIS WORK AT OXFORD! So at the very least, he is a rhodes scholar only if you believe one need not be successfully to claim the position. He just decided to leave and get his law degree - which is doing him a lot of nothing right about now since his own college’s found him fit for at least one other thing - disbarment. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/218 "2003-02-04T11:14:08Z")
If _my_ writing was the problem, there should have been others making the same mistake you did. Yes, **B & I** , you forgot (or ignored) your claim that he flunked out of school. Your cite does not make _any_ mention of him flunking out of school – _his flunking out occurred only in your mind._ And my ‘rant’ occurred _before_ you made your flimsy cite – was I supposed to read your mind? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\*My confusion was only possible to your poor writing. > > I forgot nothing. You went off on a rant, refusing to accept the Associtated Newspaper cite. > > The roll as you call it was made up in your mind. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/219 "2003-02-04T11:16:32Z")
Um, colleges don’t disbar anyone. Bars do. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blown & Injected \* > \*\* > > (snip) > > He just decided to leave and get his law degree - which is doing him a lot of nothing right about now since his own college’s found him fit for at least one other thing - disbarment. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568/220 "2003-02-04T11:28:10Z")
his flunking out occurred only in your mind. According to FU This is GD [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-bad-about-clinton/150568.md?page=12)