# What was so great about Narsil/Anduril?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [August 4, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608 "2005-08-04T19:43:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/1 "2005-08-04T19:43:19Z")
Elendil’s, and later Aragorn’s, sword in Tolkien’s _The Lord of the Rings_.
There’s lot of history behind it, to be sure: forged by a Dwarf, wielded by Men, reforged by the Elves. Cuts off Sauron’s finger. Helps rallies the Dead to defeat Sauron’s hordes besieging Minas Tirith. But in mythic or magical terms, did it really have any special powers or attributes? I don’t recall that it was particular sharp, or strong, or lethal beyond the skill of whoever held it.
I’d be glad to learn otherwise, though…
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### Author:  [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/2 "2005-08-04T19:46:50Z")
> [@William V.](#):
>
> Elendil’s, and later Aragorn’s, sword in Tolkien’s _The Lord of the Rings_.
>
> There’s lot of history behind it, to be sure: forged by a Dwarf, wielded by Men, reforged by the Elves. Cuts off Sauron’s finger. Helps rallies the Dead to defeat Sauron’s hordes besieging Minas Tirith. But in mythic or magical terms, did it really have any special powers or attributes? I don’t recall that it was particular sharp, or strong, or lethal beyond the skill of whoever held it.
>
> I’d be glad to learn otherwise, though…
It seems to me that the great bulk of the items that are spoke of as “magical” in Tolkien’s works do not have any readily identifiable magical powers, at least as they would in a Dungeons and Dragons type context.
Instead, at best, the powers are subtle and implied. You get the feeling that Tolkien intentionally wanted the powers to be subdued, and more along the lines of “always sharp” and “somehow he slew 100s of Orcs with that sword” as opposed to defined powers.
Of course, someone will have read his, “Fifth Letters Regarding the Shire,” and tell me that it is a +4 Sword of Sharpness, with an inlaid emerald that casts Acid Spray three times a day. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/3 "2005-08-04T20:17:23Z")
I think the sword was important purely as a symbol. Sure, it was a fine piece of workmanship (workelfship?) but not “Magical” in a defined way.
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### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/4 "2005-08-04T20:32:50Z")
Yeah, that was the weird thing about reading all the old Rolemaster stuff for LoTR. Some of those items were pretty gross… and didn’t do a tenth of what Rolemaster listed in the books Tolkien wrote…
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### Author:  [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/5 "2005-08-04T20:48:00Z")
I might be off base here, but always kind of figured it was Tolkein’s decision to make them vague on purpose. He was working in the framework of the old epic legends. Like I don’t remember any specific powers of Excalibur, but it amorphously made the wielder “Great” . Just kind of the undefined Epic hero nature that made guys from Ajax to Siegfried to Beowulf worth 100 men in combat could either be inate, or imbued through a magic device.
Nardil, when finally accepted by Aragorn(or others predisposed), allowed his true repressed greatness to come out. So to me it’s more than a symbol, but not really a magic.
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### Author:  [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/6 "2005-08-04T20:50:57Z")
‘s’ is on the left ‘d’ is the one on the right. :smack:
‘s’ is on the left ‘d’ is the one on the right :smack:
I keep screwing those up lately.
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### Author:  [@Ol\_Gaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ol_Gaffer)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/7 "2005-08-04T21:01:26Z")
Well, it identified the wielder as Isiludur’s heir to a bunch of dead dudes!
IIRC, in the old MERP system magical items were designed to be exceedingly rare and were all supposed to be “named” a la Orcrist, Glamdring, Anduril with accompanying histories, legends, etc.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/8 "2005-08-04T21:15:41Z")
In the old SPI _War of the Ring_ game, it added +1 to a character’s Leadership.
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### Author:  [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/9 "2005-08-04T22:20:09Z")
Well, according to the books, when wielded in battled it was bathed in white flame, and could tear through shields and armor with incredible ease.
I don’t know why Peter Jackson felt the need to strip it of its badassness for the movies.
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### Author:  [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/10 "2005-08-04T22:26:18Z")
> [@Soapbox Monkey](#):
>
> Well, according to the books, when wielded in battled it was bathed in white flame, and could tear through shields and armor with incredible ease.
>
> I don’t know why Peter Jackson felt the need to strip it of its badassness for the movies.
Directors usually do the opposite, so you should be glad, or something ;).
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/11 "2005-08-04T22:32:51Z")
Perhaps PJ didn’t want it looking like a light saber.
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### Author:  [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/12 "2005-08-04T22:37:34Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#):
>
> Perhaps PJ didn’t want it looking like a light saber.
The elvin blades glowed blue when orcs where near, why couldnt Anduril glow white? It didn’t seem to have anything about it to distinguish it from other swords, except some runes.
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### Author:  [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/13 "2005-08-04T22:49:21Z")
Well, the whole bit with Aragorn carrying the broken sword was excised by PJ; he pulled a perfectly whole sword out in Bree in the movies. It’s possible that he felt that everyone having a magic sword was a bit much. Or it could be he was just smoking crack; look at some of the other idiot decisions he made with the movies, like Faramir.
I think the sword was mainly meant to by symbolic of his royal lineage, rather than having any really specific ability.
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/14 "2005-08-04T23:48:53Z")
Presumably a ranger would tote at least one sword in operable condition for pulling at the necessary time. Narsil had been broken for like 3000 years before Aragorn was in Bree. Wouldn’t matter if it was on an altar in Rivendel or nestled in his dirty underwear in his knapsack–still wouldn’t have been much good against a Nazgul.
I don’t understand your point, good sir.
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### Author:  [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/15 "2005-08-04T23:55:55Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#):
>
> I think the sword was important purely as a symbol. Sure, it was a fine piece of workmanship (workelfship?) but not “Magical” in a defined way.
Most swords had no specific magical power other then those which keep it sharp, make it inimical orcan flesh and make it maneuverable despite it’s weight.
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/16 "2005-08-05T00:14:04Z")
Elven num-chucks would be cool.
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### Author:  [@Threadkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Threadkiller)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/17 "2005-08-05T00:35:18Z")
Interestingly enough, other blades in LoTR were (or at least were presented as) far more magical. Orcrist and Glamdring, did the orc proximity glow (as did sting) and the mere sight of them was painful to Goblins (although this may just be a Hobbit leftover. Other blades, solely in LoTR, packed a (seemingly) bigger punch than the hunk of steel Aragorn was packing. The Barrow Downs blades (at least Merry’s) has the ability to render Nazgul mortal; The Witch King’s blade could turn the victim into a devoted member of the Sauron Youth.
I think Tolkien kept his sword’s powers vague to ensure that Aragorn wasn’t seen as some sort of “magic-sword-aided hero”.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/18 "2005-08-05T00:43:46Z")
> [@wolfman](#):
>
> I might be off base here, but always kind of figured it was Tolkein’s decision to make them vague on purpose. He was working in the framework of the old epic legends. Like I don’t remember any specific powers of Excalibur, but it amorphously made the wielder “Great” .
It may have been only in the bowdlerized tales of King Arthur I read as a child (I don’t recall reading about it in my “Arthurian Romance” class in college), but one attribute of Excalibur was that while the wielder wore the sheath, he could lose no blood, no matter how deep an enemy’s sword (or other weapon) were to bite.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2005, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/19 "2005-08-05T01:47:31Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#):
>
> Elven num-chucks would be cool.
I’d have to go for a Dwavish BFG.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [August 5, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-so-great-about-narsil-anduril/315608/20 "2005-08-05T02:06:57Z")
I dunno, Anduril seems to have _some_ magic in it that’s alluded to in the books. From FoTR, “The Bridge of Khazad Dum”:
> [@John Ronald Reuel Tolkien](#):
>
> But even as they retreated, and before Pippin and Merry had reached the stair outside, a huge orc-chieftain, almost man-hight, clad in black mail from head to foot, leaped into the chamber; behind him his followers clustered in the doorway. His broad flat face was swart, his eyes were like coals, and his tongue was red; he wielded a great spear. With a trust of his huge hide shield he turned Boromir’s sword and bore him backwards, throwing him to the ground. Diving under Aragorn’s blow with the speed of a striking snake he charged into the Company and thrust with his spear straight at Frodo. The blow caught him in the right side, and Frodo was hurled against the wall and pinned. Sam, with a cry, hacked at the spear-shaft, and it broke. But even as the orc flung down the truncheon and swept out his scimitar, Andúril came down upon his helm. **There was a flash like flame and the helm burst asunder.** The orc fell with cloven head. His followers fled howling, as Boromir and Aragorn sprang at them.
Emphasis mine. Though I suppose you could argue that the “flash like a flame” was sparks or something, it seems like an indication of some special power in the sword.
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