# What was the ancient understanding of battle-wound infections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 16, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703 "2017-05-16T00:04:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703/21 "2017-05-18T17:10:35Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Other cultures… not so much. \*Which \*pre-modern ones, though? Because it’s been my experience that there’s a lot of ignorance about this particular aspect of history - for instance, the widespread idea that Medieval people didn’t bathe, or that Vikings were smelly & dirty - all \*easily \*overturned by contemporary accounts and physical evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703/22 "2017-05-18T17:59:25Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Some cultures stressed hygiene. The Romans had public baths, public fountains, running water wherever they could. We like to think of the Romans as squeaky clean, but Roman bath houses [might actually not have been all that hygienic](http://www.medicaldaily.com/ancient-roman-bathhouses-were-actually-very-unclean-spread-around-intestinal-368348). Bath water was changed only rarely, and the sick and the healthy would bathe together. Going to the baths might well have been a good way to pick up a disease, rather than avoiding one. And think about it: When visiting the latrines, would you really want to wipe your bottom with a communal sponge, the way the Romans apparently did? Personally, if I get access to a time machine and I’m allowed to choose one personal item to take with me, I’m bringing a pack of wet wipes. Maybe that’s just me, though. BTW, on the subject of Romans and microbes, here’s a guy who was sort of on the right track: [Marcus Terentius Varro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Terentius_Varro). From _[De Re Rustica](http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/e/roman/texts/varro/de_re_rustica/1*.html)_: > [@](#): > > Precautions must also be taken in the neighbourhood of swamps, both for the reasons given, and because there are bred certain minute creatures which cannot be seen by the eyes, which float in the air and enter the body through the mouth and nose and there cause serious diseases. The Latin is “animalia quaedam minuta”. How did Varro know about tiny invisible creatures causing disease? Well, he almost certainly didn’t, as such, it’s not like he had a microscope. Was it some kind of lucky-ass guess? Probably. Did he take the idea any further? Nope, apparently there’s just that one quote. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703/23 "2017-05-18T18:20:45Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > \*Which \*pre-modern ones, though? Because it’s been my experience that there’s a lot of ignorance about this particular aspect of history - for instance, the widespread idea that Medieval people didn’t bathe, or that Vikings were smelly & dirty - all \*easily \*overturned by contemporary accounts and physical evidence. I find this: [MAKE Literary Productions, NFP | Review: Sin and Filth in Medieval Culture by Martha Bayless](http://makemag.com/review-sin-and-filth-in-medieval-culture-by-martha-bayless/) > [@](#): > > It is unsurprising that excrement was such a prominent topic in medieval writings, given that dung was ubiquitous in medieval Europe. Sewers were non-existent, as was knowledge of microbes and correspondingly the modern notion of hygiene; latrines were rare, even among the highest echelons of society. Public rooms were occasionally designated for human waste, but for most people doing as nature intended meant using the great outdoors, which in cities, towns and villages often meant the street. Texts from health boards and laws from the period are rife with charged discussions of the topic, and Leonardo Da Vinci deplored the use of stairways as latrines. As we move into the later Middle Ages the situation improved, but only slightly: gutters gradually appeared in city streets, with laws guiding citizens to empty chamber pots and household waste directly into these streams. Which reinforces stories I’ve heard about medieval times - for example, the denizens of Versailles regularly relieving themselves in the hallways; chamber pots emptied by tossing contents out the window; a story about a restoration-era wigmaker doing repairs on a noble’s wig, which had been regularly greased and powered - break it open to find it full of crawling “animaliculae”. My point being, in a life where every use of water meant it had to be fetched from a well no matter what the weather, when running streams froze over, when water for baths had to be heated in a pot first, when central heating was scarce and so bathing in winter was not an enjoyable prospect, when laundry was a major chore and drying clothes afterwards could be worse depending on weather, when fresh fluffy clothes every day was not an option and clothing itself was very expensive, when cities were starting to aggregate to larger populations but still lacked the infrastructure for water and sewage - hygienic standards were not what they are today. The nobles may have had it fairly good at times, but the vast majority did not. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703/24 "2017-05-19T02:15:57Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Some cultures stressed hygiene. The Romans had public baths, public fountains, running water wherever they could. The Jews in ancient Israel were obsessed with ritual cleansing. Mohammed made several-times-daily cleaning a part of the religion. > > Other cultures… not so much. Europe had a bad experience with the “Black Death”, and, searching around for explanations, decided that exposure to things like public bathhouses was a bad idea. Bathing was seen as unhealthy until the society became rich enough to enjoy private bathing. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703/25 "2017-05-19T03:51:13Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > The Latin is “animalia quaedam minuta”. How did Varro know about tiny invisible creatures causing disease? Well, he almost certainly didn’t, as such, it’s not like he had a microscope. Was it some kind of lucky-ass guess? Probably. Did he take the idea any further? Nope, apparently there’s just that one quote. He was not the only one. Jain scriptures from nearly a millennium earlier claim the existence of very small unseen organisms floating in the air, which they called Nigoda. Later the Arab scientist Ibn Sina also postulated their existence. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703/26 "2017-05-19T06:35:49Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Which reinforces stories I’ve heard about\*\* medieval times\*\* - for example, the denizens of **Versailles** My emphasis. OK, I see the disconnect here - you literally have no idea what “medieval” actually means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-ancient-understanding-of-battle-wound-infections/786703.md?page=1)