# What was the deal with (the health of) J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 30, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082 "2003-11-30T18:14:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/1 "2003-11-30T18:14:34Z")
I seem to recall sometime toward the end of Hoover’s career that Hoover seemed not to have all his mental faculties. I also seem to recall reading or hearing that at Hoover’s funeral, that Tolson, who died three years later, didn’t seem to know what (the funeral, that is) was going on. This is not a question about their relationship, or the politics of Hoover. Just looking for some corroboration, or debunking, on their mental states at the time. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/2 "2003-11-30T20:27:41Z")
[This article](http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/pmckinley/Read%2025.htm) on the disposal of Hoover’s estate refers to a lawsuit by Tolson’s brother, charging that at the time of Hoover’s death, Tolson “suffered from many ailments that resulted in his permanent disability” and made Tolson “an easy prey for undue influence and coercion, which was exhibited upon him”. As to Hoover, this [GW News Center](http://www.gwu.edu/~media/pressreleases/hoover.html) press release says something of his state at the time of his death: “not in ill health” but possibly depressed by a recent critical biography. ---
**Author:** ![raygirvan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@raygirvan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raygirvan)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/3 "2003-11-30T20:37:42Z")
[This article](http://staffwww.fullcoll.edu/pmckinley/Read%2025.htm) on the disposal of Hoover’s estate refers to a lawsuit by Tolson’s brother, charging that at the time of Hoover’s death, Tolson “suffered from many ailments that resulted in his permanent disability” and made Tolson “an easy prey for undue influence and coercion, which was exhibited upon him”. As to Hoover, this [GW News Center](http://www.gwu.edu/~media/pressreleases/hoover.html) press release says something of his state at the time of his death, “not in ill health” but possibly depressed by a recent critical biography. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/4 "2003-11-30T21:06:00Z")
I’ve done some googling, and it would seem that Hoover’s death was attributed to a heart attack, tho no autopsy was performed. I’ve heard that mental degradation is a symptom of some STD’s, which would fit in with Hoover and Tolson’s (alleged) gay relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Tedster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/5 "2003-12-01T01:51:38Z")
The KGB was the source of “Hoover is a cross-dressing queer” propaganda. Haven’t you guys read the Venona transcripts? Hiss was guilty as hell too, in case you didn’t know. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/6 "2003-12-01T03:40:21Z")
Shucks, and here I was thinkin’ it was organized crime spreadin’ all those stories about Good Time Hoover and Slick Clyde… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/7 "2003-12-01T03:58:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > I’ve heard that mental degradation is a symptom of some STD’s, which would fit in with Hoover and Tolson’s (alleged) gay relationship. Being as politically correct as the next guy, I sort of have to wonder about your implied “gay = STD” connection. You realize these men died well before the advent of AIDS, don’t you? And syphills, another STD that can impair mental function, was likely suffered by straights at an equal or greater rate than gays. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/8 "2003-12-01T05:11:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*I’ve heard that mental degradation is a symptom of some STD’s, which would fit in with Hoover and Tolson’s (alleged) gay relationship. \*\* That has to be one of the more asinine things I’ve read on the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/9 "2003-12-01T05:14:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bryan Ekers \* > \*\*Being as politically correct as the next guy, I sort of have to wonder about your implied “gay = STD” connection. You realize these men died well before the advent of AIDS, don’t you? And syphills, another STD that can impair mental function, was likely suffered by straights at an equal or greater rate than gays. \*\* I think (hope) that the point being made was the if they were in a sexual relationship it would follow that if one had an STD, the other one would too. Haj ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/10 "2003-12-01T06:36:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diceman \* > \*\*I’ve heard that mental degradation is a symptom of some STD’s, which would fit in with Hoover and Tolson’s (alleged) gay relationship. \*\* I’m trying \*\*very \*\*hard to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I think you really need to explain what you’re implying here. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/11 "2003-12-01T07:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker \* > **I also seem to recall reading or hearing that at Hoover’s funeral, that Tolson, … didn’t seem to know what … was going on.** I’ve been to a fair number of funerals where the widow/widower seemed to be pretty much out of it. I generally put this down to grief & shock, rather than wondering about their mental facilities. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/12 "2003-12-01T12:37:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hajario \* > **I think (hope) that the point being made was the if they were in a sexual relationship it would follow that if one had an STD, the other one would too.** This was indeed my point. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/13 "2003-12-01T12:58:34Z")
Sorry for not being more clear about that. I didn’t mean to imply that all gay men have STD’s. Just that, if one of them had an STD, and the two of them had a multi-decade relationship, then the other one almost certainly caught it too. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/14 "2003-12-01T18:28:19Z")
But **Diceman** , while others presented evidence that Tolson suffered from “mental degradation”, neither you nor anyone else in this thread made such an allegation about Hoover. ---
**Author:** ![Flypsyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Flypsyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flypsyde)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/15 "2003-12-01T19:12:09Z")
**Walloon** , that allegation was made in the OP. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earl Snake-Hips Tucker \* > \*\*I seem to recall sometime toward the end of Hoover’s career that Hoover seemed not to have all his mental faculties. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/16 "2003-12-01T19:57:55Z")
I don’t care WHO made it up, that The Hoove as a transvestite deal is too deliciously ironic to let go of just because it isn’t true, especially considering what an ugly drag queen he’d make. I have a photo clipped from that stalwart of journalistic integrity, _The Weekly World News,_ showing Edgar and Clyde strolling down the boardwalk with Edgar looking like my grandmum. It is VERY well done–far above the WWW’s, or the Soviets’, normal standards for doctoring photos. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/17 "2003-12-01T22:36:12Z")
What was the deal with J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson? You know what I mean! As you can see, J. Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson worked in America’s intelligence community, and often frequented the Washington D.C. area. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/18 "2003-12-02T00:07:38Z")
My “source” for the point about Hoover’s mental capacity was an interview some years ago with none other than G. Gordon Liddy, who said that he had written a letter to the President at some point in his FBI days saying that Hoover was not in sufficient shape (my words) to remain the FBI chief. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/19 "2003-12-02T00:08:40Z")
And, of course, I could just be misremembering things. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082/20 "2003-12-02T00:18:25Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve been to a fair number of funerals where the widow/widower seemed to be pretty much out of it. > > I generally put this down to grief & shock, rather than wondering about their mental facilities. The first article that **raygirvan** links to makes it seem like Tolson was pretty much totally senile by the time of his death. (Three years after Hoover.) Isn’t power of attorney normally given when someone is not competent to handle their own affairs? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-deal-with-the-health-of-j-edgar-hoover-and-clyde-tolson/216082.md?page=2)