# What was the distance from The Shire to Mordor (LOTR)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602 "2005-09-27T01:28:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/1 "2005-09-27T01:28:13Z")
Is there anyone that could give an estimate, if possible, of (1) The distance from Hobbiton to Mount Doom, as the crow flies. (2) The distance that Frodo actually journeyed, which was probably in a somewhat roundabout way. (3) The time it took from the start of the journey to the end? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/2 "2005-09-27T01:49:15Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Is there anyone that could give an estimate, if possible, of > > (1) The distance from Hobbiton to Mount Doom, as the crow flies. > (2) The distance that Frodo actually journeyed, which was probably in a somewhat roundabout way. > (3) The time it took from the start of the journey to the end? Drawing from Karen Wynn Fonstad’s Atlas of Middle-Earth (which draws heavily on JRRT’s _copious_ details about times and distances, we get the following: 1. About 1100 miles 2. 1560 miles or so 3. Frodo left Hobbiton on September 23rd, and arrived at the Cracks of doom on March 25th. Per the Shire Calendar. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/3 "2005-09-27T18:08:58Z")
Wow, that was more than I expected. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/4 "2005-09-27T19:11:30Z")
I think you’ll enjoy this take on the answer to your question: [http://www.ooblick.com/text/tomordor/](http://www.ooblick.com/text/tomordor/) ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/5 "2005-09-27T19:14:19Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > 1. Frodo left Hobbiton on September 23rd, and arrived at the Cracks of doom on March 25th. Per the Shire Calendar. Not enough information. Was it a leap year? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/6 "2005-09-27T19:43:24Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Not enough information. > > Was it a leap year? Hmm… well while we’re being sticklers for detail, my calculations say that Frodo averaged 8.6 miles per day. Of course, there were many times that he stopped and rested. Like in Rivendell and Lothlorien, but I’m not certain how long he stayed in Lothlorien (my reading of the book says they lost track of time there due to the influence of Galadriel’s elven ring). I wonder how many travel days there were compared to rest days? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/7 "2005-09-27T20:38:50Z")
Leap year is irrelevant, since the Shire calendar puts leap-day in the summer. And it’s implied that they stayed in Lothlorien for a month (or some whole number of months, but I think probably just one). Rivendell I think we can call two weeks: About ten days for Frodo’s recovery, then the Council, then another couple of days to organize and set out. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/8 "2005-09-27T22:22:44Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Is there anyone that could give an estimate, if possible, of > > (1) The distance from Hobbiton to Mount Doom, **as the crow flies**. > (2) The distance that Frodo actually journeyed, which was probably in a somewhat roundabout way. > (3) The time it took from the start of the journey to the end? Shouldn’t that be **as the Nazgûl fly**? Wonder if they got frequent eagle miles back then? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/9 "2005-09-27T22:55:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Leap year is irrelevant, since the Shire calendar puts leap-day in the summer. And it’s implied that they stayed in Lothlorien for a month (or some whole number of months, but I think probably just one). Rivendell I think we can call two weeks: About ten days for Frodo’s recovery, then the Council, then another couple of days to organize and set out. I don’t have my copy of the Appendices at hand, but don’t they actually give the dates of the various departures (from Rivendell, and Lothlorien)? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@The\_Hook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hook)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/10 "2005-09-27T23:07:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I don’t have my copy of the Appendices at hand, but don’t they actually give the dates of the various departures (from Rivendell, and Lothlorien)? October 24 Frodo recovers and wakes. Boromir arrives in Rivendell at night. October 25 Council of Elrond December 25 The Company of the Ring leaves Rivendell at dusk. January 17 The Company comes to Caras Galadon at evening. February 16 Farewell to Lorien. Gollum in holding on the west bank observes the departure. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/11 "2005-09-27T23:25:35Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Shouldn’t that be **as the Nazgûl fly**? Actually, now that I think about it, I’m curious about that. Did the winged creatures that the Nazgûl flew have a name? Why didn’t the Nazgul just bring them to the Shire in the first place instead of their dark horses? ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/12 "2005-09-27T23:35:24Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Shouldn’t that be **as the Nazgûl fly**? Nooo it should be as the **Crebain** fly. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/13 "2005-09-27T23:58:47Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Drawing from Karen Wynn Fonstad’s Atlas of Middle-Earth See, what’s scary about this is **Qadgop** answered the OP 21 minutes after it was posted. Not taking into account that he happened on the thread just after it was posted, his rapid answer suggests that he has LOTR references sandwiched between Gray’s Anatomy and the PDR 2005, 58th Ed. It’s a shame that Medcins Sans Frontiers didn’t have a group put together to help out with casualties from the battles. **Qadgop** would have been perfect for the assignment and in 7th heaven. Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/14 "2005-09-28T00:20:33Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Did the winged creatures that the Nazgûl flew have a name? Fell Beasts, IIRC. > [@](#): > > Why didn’t the Nazgul just bring them to the Shire in the first place instead of their dark horses? Apparently the Beasts were in the shop being serviced at the time. According to the book, there was a raid in Rohan, and the Orcs stole black horses, which I assume were the same horses that the Riders later rode. I guess one might assume that the Riders were in great haste and didn’t have time to gas up the Lear-beasts, so they raided a stable and galloped off to Hobbiton. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/15 "2005-09-28T00:23:42Z")
> [@Vlad/Igor](#): > > See, what’s scary about this is **Qadgop** answered the OP 21 minutes after it was posted. Not taking into account that he happened on the thread just after it was posted, his rapid answer suggests that he has LOTR references sandwiched between Gray’s Anatomy and the PDR 2005, 58th Ed. It’s a shame that Medcins Sans Frontiers didn’t have a group put together to help out with casualties from the battles. **Qadgop** would have been perfect for the assignment and in 7th heaven. > > Vlad/Igor I just got the image of him grabbing the wrong book at work. “Give me athelas, stat!” ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/16 "2005-09-28T00:26:32Z")
A more serious reply, but probably not a better answer: Apparently earlier in the books, Sauron was still operating secretly, so the Wraiths went as black horsemen. Shortly after Helm’s Deep, a winged Nazgul flies overhead, and Gandalf exclaims something like “The Nazgul have come West of the River! War is upon us!” So, apparently a Winged Nazgul was a Great Portent or something, where 9 evil Black Riders was something you saw every day. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/17 "2005-09-28T01:27:05Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > Hmm… well while we’re being sticklers for detail, my calculations say that Frodo averaged 8.6 miles per day. Of course, there were many times that he stopped and rested. Like in Rivendell and Lothlorien, but I’m not certain how long he stayed in Lothlorien (my reading of the book says they lost track of time there due to the influence of Galadriel’s elven ring). I wonder how many travel days there were compared to rest days? Get your hands on the Atlas of Middle Earth. It breaks down just how far the travelers went each day! Fortunately JRRT made notes about how long an “ent-stride” was, so folks have been able to estimate how far Treebeard carried Merry and Pippin. I’ve got the Atlas right here, but I’m not gonna count up all the travel vs. rest days for the whole fellowship. Took me long enough to add up the miles for you! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/18 "2005-09-28T01:30:46Z")
> [@Vlad/Igor](#): > > his rapid answer suggests that he has LOTR references sandwiched between Gray’s Anatomy and the PDR 2005, 58th Ed. > Vlad/Igor Don’t be silly. My LOTR reference books are much more readily available than Gray’s Anatomy or the PDR. First things first! 😃 (Actually the current PDR is too damn bulky to pick up and use anymore. I get my drug data online. Anatomy too.) ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/19 "2005-09-28T01:45:17Z")
> [@well he's back](#): > > I think you’ll enjoy this take on the answer to your question: > [Hoom! Maps and Walking Directions](http://www.ooblick.com/text/tomordor/) I did enjoy very much, that you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lissla\_Lissar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lissla\_Lissar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissla_Lissar)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602/20 "2005-09-28T04:01:23Z")
> [@](#): > > About ten days for Frodo’s recovery, then the Council, then another couple of days to organize and set out. I’m a bit late, but after the council, they sent out scouts, including Aragorn (I think) and the sons of Elrond. They had at least a month before the scouts returned. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-distance-from-the-shire-to-mordor-lotr/323602.md?page=2)