# What was the earliest true commercial dial-up ISP? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 17, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933 "2015-10-17T20:35:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/1 "2015-10-17T20:35:20Z")
I know The World STD started in November 1989 and thus claims to be, but actually they didn’t offer true Internet service until 1992, just news, UUCP and other old protocols. Alternet and Psinet both started selling TCP/IP in January 1990, but from what I understand they sold Internet mostly to companies and were not allowed to give access to the entire Internet without the permission of the NSF. So really, they were in the beginning sort of their own WAN that was using the TCP/IP technology, but not truly part of the Internet. So I doubt they could be considered a “true” ISP in the sense of AOL and Genie, ie a company offering a GUI and dial-up from home for a reasonable price. The Commercial Internet Exchange was sort of a “parallel Internet”, from what I understand prior to 1995 when NSFnet was shut down and the Internet became a singular entity. I know that if you could get hooked up from a college, home Internet access was possible even in the 1980s, but what’s the earliest company that could grant “all takers” a leased line directly to their home, that accessed the _whole_ Internet and not just part of it or a “spinoff” TCP/IP backbone? Does anyone remember first hand? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/2 "2015-10-17T22:23:24Z")
Do you consider a dumb terminal dial-in to an Internet-connected device a true ISP? Or does it have to be something that runs a TCP/IP stack locally? ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/3 "2015-10-17T23:15:21Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Do you consider a dumb terminal dial-in to an Internet-connected device a true ISP? Or does it have to be something that runs a TCP/IP stack locally? I would say yes, since even dial-up AOL is essentially a terminal connection. Technically the computer isn’t “on the Internet”, it’s only connected to an analog link to a machine that’s on the Internet. Which is why all you needed to get online was one of their free discs and not a modem (those old tymes). Doing some research it looks like PSInet started offering dial-up in 1993, though they were selling the TCP/IP equipment commercially as early as January 1990, possibly even a bit earlier “under the table” as they incorporated in 1989. [http://www.verycomputer.com/28\_dd4f551eccb9fd2b\_1.htm](http://www.verycomputer.com/28_dd4f551eccb9fd2b_1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/4 "2015-10-17T23:24:35Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I would say yes, since even dial-up AOL is essentially a terminal connection. Technically the computer isn’t “on the Internet”, it’s only connected to an analog link to a machine that’s on the Internet. Well, no - present day dialup AOL runs a local TCP/IP stack on the end-user machine, which has its own IP and is network-addressable while it’s connected. The analog modem is just the datalink layer, providing a serial tunnel for the TCP connection, usually via PPP. (They used SLIP in olden times too.) OTOH, my first Internet experience came from running a modem terminal emulator program which dialed into an access point that provided terminal-based client applications. You could get the same thing by connecting a dumb terminal to a modem, but those were a little before my time. In that case you’re not part of the TCP network, you’re just a terminal on a big central machine that is part of the TCP network. Even AOL, CompuServe and GEnie followed this model initially - AOL did not become a true ISP until a long time after real ISP service was available elsewhere, but they did provide gateways to various Internet services. And GEnie just went away. My point is the shift between these two models was gradual and a lot of organizations were doing it around the same time, basically concurrently with when TCP driver software became available for consumer PCs. The first organizations to do it were probably universities and corporate networks rather than commercial ISPs. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2015, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/5 "2015-10-17T23:36:08Z")
Is this the same question you had back in January (see below)? > [@When was the earliest you could use the Internet at home?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-was-the-earliest-you-could-use-the-internet-at-home/708750/1): > > AOL, Compuserve, etc have been available since the 80s, but they weren’t “True” ISP’s until 1994-ish when they started allowing links to Usenet and more importantly the Web. > > From what I’ve read, Internet-based email was available on a commercial basis from 1988-89 onwards, and fuller Internet access was offered in a few places by 1989-90, but being that the Internet wasn’t fully opened to commercial traffic until 1995 I imagine they’re talking about business and research connections, not connections to home PCs right? > > Alternet started selling connections in January 1990 but from what I gather due to the government still having a large grip on the Net they could only sell to highly qualified people who would use it (at least ostensibly) for research purposes. > > However, Commercial Internet Exchange of the UK claims to have offered email and Usenet was back in 1988! Again though, not sure if an average Joe could have had their PC linked up that early. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/6 "2015-10-18T02:41:36Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Well, no - present day dialup AOL runs a local TCP/IP stack on the end-user machine, which has its own IP and is network-addressable while it’s connected. The analog modem is just the datalink layer, providing a serial tunnel for the TCP connection, usually via PPP. (They used SLIP in olden times too.) > . Was this the case back in 1995? From what I recall, to use AOL and Compuserve you just needed to plug your phone line into a jack in your computer. Unless it had an internal modem of some sort? ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/7 "2015-10-18T02:42:49Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Is this the same question you had back in January (see below)? I guess so. 😃 I forgot about that. I’ve been writing a history of the Internet and since a lot of old-time users are here, I thought it would be a good place to ask questions. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/8 "2015-10-18T03:00:54Z")
> [@](#): > > **The World** is an [Internet service provider](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_service_provider) originally headquartered in [Brookline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookline,_Massachusetts), [Massachusetts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts). It began selling computer news access in November 1989 but despite popular belief was not the first to sell access to the NSFNET, the “true” Internet at the time. That distinction goes to UUNET (Alternet), which gained for-profit status and began selling limited Internet connectivity to consumers in January 1990 and had probably already sold bandwidth as a non-profit to [DARPA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA)-approved companies as early as November 1988. [[3]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_%28Internet_service_provider%29#cite_note-3) > > It was however, the first legal ISP and the first to offer full Internet access on August 13, 1992, as Alternet’s Internet connectivity was limited to non-approved users. [The World (Internet service provider) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_%28Internet_service_provider%29) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/9 "2015-10-18T10:05:27Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > Was this the case back in 1995? From what I recall, to use AOL and Compuserve you just needed to plug your phone line into a jack in your computer. Unless it had an internal modem of some sort? SLIP is Serial ?Line? Internet Protocol: it’s the part of the system that did the login/password authentication when you dialled up. Windows 95 got a TCP/IP stack from MS, and before that Trumpet Winsock was a common 3rd-party TCP/IP stack. AOL and Compuserve weren’t “the internet” when they started out: they were commercial BBS. With a BBS, you didn’t use SLIP, IP, TCP. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/10 "2015-10-18T11:11:30Z")
My high school had a dumb terminal with modem link to a nearby university that was linked to other universities. You’d make a phone call to the university’s special number and press the handset into a big box with rubber cups that fit the universal shape of all phone handsets. I barely used this, 1973 to 1975. Weren’t the universities part of the internet, and wasn’t somebody providing us service to it? I’m not making a rhetorical point, I’m probably more asking what the border is that qualifies an “ISP”. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/11 "2015-10-19T03:02:09Z")
My wife and I were customers of The World very early. We were accessing it via an Amiga 1000, so there was no TCP/IP use possible even it it were offered. I’d say they were an Internet Service Provider in that they provided a service that allowed us to access the Internet. Getting a full News feed or FTP without going through a shell was not really that important a distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/12 "2015-10-19T03:28:14Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I would say yes, since even dial-up AOL is essentially a terminal connection. Technically the computer isn’t “on the Internet”, it’s only connected to an analog link to a machine that’s on the Internet. That’s how the Internet works: Every computer is connected to some other computer as part of an IP network, and the set of computers so connected is the Internet. There’s nothing magical about T1 or cable or fiber optic which makes those connections “More Internet” or “Real Internet” or anything else; a dial-up computer is on the Internet for as long as it has a usable connection. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/13 "2015-10-19T12:40:10Z")
I remember logging on to message boards in the lat 80s. I briefly signed up with AOL right after they dropped their association with Apple. I remember because I signed up to get to Apple-I was pissed that they weren’t “part” of Apple like I thought. To the point of the OP-at the time I remember having to install extra software on my Macintosh to get a TCP/IP stack. I believe it was 3rd party. So 1988-89 not only was there access available to anyone with a phone, it was TCP/IP-as evidenced by the availability of the software. Macs at least for the first few years (84-88) did not have a stack, so that gives us a time frame. In sum, I believe a dedicated person could have gotten on the internet in 1988 for the cost of a phone call (likely a long-distance phone call, but available), and maybe earlier. Now, since the web wasn’t around, you were just logging on to message boards and finding kludges to DL small programs, but that was the internet at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/14 "2015-10-19T12:51:38Z")
> [@protoboard](#): > > I would say yes, since even dial-up AOL is essentially a terminal connection. Technically the computer isn’t “on the Internet”, it’s only connected to an analog link to a machine that’s on the Internet. Which is why all you needed to get online was one of their free discs and not a modem (those old tymes). A CD does nothing, if there is no carrier. You always need something to connect, commonly known as [MODEM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem), be it a [acoustic couplers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modem#Acoustic_couplers) modem from the 70’s or a DSL (Digital Subscriber Line). How you connect (via cable or wireless) to that modem is somewhat irrelevant. Also, once you connect up, you are part of the [Internet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet). There is no such place as the Internet by itself, it’s made up of interconnected computers, which your PC is part of. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/15 "2015-10-19T14:23:11Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > That’s how the Internet works: Every computer is connected to some other computer as part of an IP network, and the set of computers so connected is the Internet. There’s nothing magical about T1 or cable or fiber optic which makes those connections “More Internet” or “Real Internet” or anything else; a dial-up computer is on the Internet for as long as it has a usable connection. Strictly speaking, device is “part of the Internet” if and only if it is running the Internet Protocol network layer and is exchanging packets with another device that is on the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/16 "2015-10-19T14:25:10Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Strictly speaking, device is “part of the Internet” if and only if it is running the Internet Protocol network layer and is exchanging packets with another device that is on the Internet. That’s precisely what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/17 "2015-10-19T14:27:28Z")
Yes, I’ve been trying to edit or delete that ever since I accidentally posted it before I was finished. Phone fail. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/18 "2015-10-19T14:31:24Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > Yes, I’ve been trying to edit or delete that ever since I accidentally posted it before I was finished. Phone fail. Phones have been the bane of IP networking since the days of analog modems. 😉 It’s good to have a concise summary, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/19 "2015-10-19T20:24:28Z")
I subscribed to CompuServe (dial-up) for ten years, from 1991 to 2001, until broadband finally came to my address (a DSL) which made a dial-up provider redundant. But before this CompuServe started to offer ‘internet access’ sometime in the late 90s. At first you couldn’t switch between them, each time you dialed-in you had to first decide if you wanted to use internet access (thru the CompuServe gateway) or just CompuServe. I don’t remember if it dialed a different number, you just chose which one you wanted to use before dialing-in. Eventually they fixed that so you could switch back and forth without disconnecting. Originally you also still used their proprietary GUI software even when on the internet. Then CompuServe begin offering Netscape for sale at a discount. Then Internet Explorer came free with Windows, and the CompuServe ‘service’ became little more than a small internet dialer program to connect you and then let your browser take over. It was an unusual time for dial-ups like CompuServe, AOL, Prodigy etc… As the internet (or the www actually) became more popular they needed to provide more & more access to it as originally it was attracting record numbers of customers to their service. But soon the writing was on the wall. Once the phone and cable companies started offering direct, high-speed service their businesses instantly became obsolete. I kept CompuServe for a month or two after getting a DSL but it was obviously no longer needed. I remember calling CompuServe to cancel their service (then, as now, you always had to actually call to cancel something) and the phone rep saw how long I had been a customer but I told them I had high-speed now and just didn’t need it anymore. I could tell that these were the vast majority of calls they were getting and yet by that point they weren’t even trying to get people to stay. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933/20 "2015-10-20T23:09:19Z")
I guess it is The World after all. Their history is confusing, but doing the research, unless Barry Shein their founder is mistaken they indeed were selling dial-up in 1989. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-earliest-true-commercial-dial-up-isp/734933.md?page=2)