# What was the general reaction to "Archie Meets The Punisher?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 24, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522 "2009-08-24T17:37:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/1 "2009-08-24T17:37:31Z")
In an article today published in the Bergen _Record_ commenting on reaction to the “Archie-marries-Veronica” storyline currently going on in Archie comics, a timeline of the character commented on the 1994 Archie/Marvel crossover one-shot _Archie Meets The Punisher_, stating it was “one of the most vilified comic books ever.” I was surprised at this line, as having actuall read it, I thought it was a very clever take on an obviously ridiculous idea. For those unfamiliar: according to the book’s introduction, _Archie Meets The Punisher_ (also known as _The Punisher Meets Archie_- both Archie and Marvel published a version, each with a different cover and their own character getting top billing) came from a joke idea for a crossover that was tossed around the two companies that they decided to make a reality. In the obviously tongue-in-cheek story, the Punisher chases a villain who is a dead ringer for Archie to Riverdale, where he of course ends up confusing a certain redheaded teen for his prey. Hilarity ensues, but all ends well. The story ends with a similarly comedic setup for an imaginary Jughead-vs.-Wolverine adventure. The few references I’ve found to the comic online comment on how unusual the premise is (though that was probably the intention) but seem to have positive comments on how humorously brilliant it was done. Was _Archie vs. the Punisher_ really as poorly-received as the _Record_ article claims? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/2 "2009-08-24T18:24:36Z")
I was working for a comics dealer at the time and my recollection that it didn’t sell massive quantities but everyone who bought it loved it as an entertaining poke at the Punisher, Archie, and crossovers. I attributed that to the Marvel zombies getting turned off by Archie above anything else. I’ve never heard anyone say a bad word about the crossover however. Let alone “one of the most vilified comic books ever”. ---
**Author:** ![Zagrobelny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/fbc32d/32.png) [@Zagrobelny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagrobelny)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/3 "2009-08-24T21:24:19Z")
The general reaction I recall was indifference. There were plenty of other things to get worked up about at the time, and about half of them involved Rob Liefeld. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/4 "2009-08-24T21:44:31Z")
I remember the reaction being: It’s really dumb to actually write a comic book based on what was essentially a joke premise, but they did make a decent story of it. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/5 "2009-08-24T22:54:29Z")
If anything people looked at it in a humorous way, like “hey they’ll cross over anything now!” but no vilification. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/6 "2009-08-25T00:16:47Z")
I liked it. Mostly because Riverdale _is_ just north of New York City. > **[Riverdale, Bronx](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riverdale,_Bronx)** > > Riverdale is a residential neighborhood in the northwestern portion of the New York City borough of the Bronx. Riverdale, which had a population of 47,850 as of the 2000 United States Census, contains the city's northernmost point, at the College of Mount Saint Vincent. Riverdale's boundaries are disputed, but it is commonly agreed to be bordered by Yonkers to the north, Van Cortlandt Park and Broadway to the east, the Kingsbridge neighborhood to the southeast, either the Harlem River or the S It’s technically in the Bronx, but it’s also sort of the closest suburb to the city. Which means the setup for the comic actually made sense. And is probably why it was written. Someone was going 'You know, I pass that stop every day on my commute… what if…" It was actually pretty well written, and reminded me a lot of, say, Happy Days, when you consider how kiddified the Fonz’s hoodlumness was. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/7 "2009-08-25T00:26:44Z")
It can’t have been worse than that Batman/Hulk crossover. Or the first Superman/Spider-Man issue. Their second encouter was miles better. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/8 "2009-08-25T01:12:12Z")
It was the first Archie product I’d ever actually bought. Also the last, but I’m kind of outside their target demographic. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/9 "2009-08-25T03:04:13Z")
Does anyone remember the Ninja Turtles/Archie crossover that came out around 1990 or so? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/10 "2009-08-25T03:08:22Z")
Couldn’t Archie have just turned into Captain Pureheart and help foil the criminal? (Now there’s an obscure reference to old Archie comics history!) > [@cmkeller](#): > > …It’s really dumb to actually write a comic book based on what was essentially a joke premise, Yes, we wouldn’t want comics based on joke premises! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/11 "2009-08-25T03:53:11Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Yes, we wouldn’t want comics based on joke premises! 😃 Grafic nvls r srs bsness! ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/12 "2009-08-25T06:04:08Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Couldn’t Archie have just turned into Captain Pureheart and help foil the criminal? (Now there’s an obscure reference to old Archie comics history!) Michael Uslan, who is writing the wedding story (and was also the producer of all six Batman films), is actually writing a Captain Pureheart revival story for Archie. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/13 "2009-08-25T10:41:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Couldn’t Archie have just turned into Captain Pureheart and help foil the criminal? (Now there’s an obscure reference to old Archie comics history!) That’s not obscure. Teenie weenie magic beanie, pointing towards the sky! ---
**Author:** ![Gcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gcat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/14 "2009-08-25T13:14:44Z")
I say it’s “Most Mocked”, mostly by people who haven’t read it. It’s brought up to show how horrible/silly mainstream comic have become. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/15 "2009-08-25T15:05:15Z")
choie: > [@](#): > > Yes, we wouldn’t want comics based on joke premises! Well, there’s jokes, and there’s jokes. When someone off-handedly mentions an Archie-Punisher crossover as an example of an absurd idea that would never make sense, and then, real comic companies actually decide to treat it as a challenge to genuinely write, that’s a bit dumb. No one really saw a market for an Archie-Punisher book. It would be like if someone saw the Far Side cartoon of [Toby vs Godzilla](http://www.curiosities.com/sp/cd6027.asp) (Toby being an ordinary dog, biting at the ankle of the giant lizard, who’s oblivious to his presence) and decided “Hey - I’ll bet we can make a REAL story out of that!” Even if someone could write a decent story out of it, the point of the joke was not “what would happen if…”, the point of the joke was the juxtaposition of extremely mismatched elements in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/16 "2009-08-25T15:19:25Z")
I recall the comic being well received. Everybody thought it would stink and was surprised when it turned out to actually be good. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/17 "2009-08-25T17:54:13Z")
Actually, all things considered, it’s probably one of the best of the inter-company crossovers. Way better than, say, JLA/WILDCATS. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/18 "2009-08-25T20:42:48Z")
Archie’s super-hero alter-ego was just Pureheart (specifically “Pureheart the Powerful”; the [short-lived comic](http://www.coverbrowser.com/covers/captain-pureheart) dedicated to his adventures was briefly renamed “Captain Pureheart”, but when the character was later revived for one-off adventures, the “Captain” was dropped), with Reggie as his arch-enemy Evilheart. Jughead’s alter-ego was Captain Hero (and he transformed with the “teenie weenie magic beanie” chant). Betty, incidentally, was Superteen. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/19 "2009-08-26T00:09:23Z")
IIRC, the local comic book store owner commented that the crossover hurt the image of Archie – which he said had been doing much better before the crossover. It didn’t hurt the Punisher, since most serious fans had decided the character had become a joke long before. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522/20 "2009-08-26T00:31:48Z")
“Why don’t we do a story where they all die?” Isn’t that the ‘joke’ that set off _The Watchmen_? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-general-reaction-to-archie-meets-the-punisher/507522.md?page=2)