# What was the largest battle in human history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 13, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773 "2013-09-13T16:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/21 "2013-09-14T01:40:02Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Maybe day to day life without th Internet was boring, so going off to war gave them some excitement. Actu7ally, this is extremely true. Much of the core of the Southern army was made up of boys and men who had, at best, vague ideological support, but wanted to do something exciting. For most, the war promised travel and adventure, in a time when many people rarely did. > [@](#): > > Pickett’s charge was made by a ton of men who HAD to know they were probably going to die. Even the generals had to know this mass frontal assault had little chance at success. How they got their men to continue to walk forward in the face of all that firepower still amazes me. Many of these guys were walking barefoot, and yet they still had the discipline to march onl. If I was lucky enough to survive a canister blast that took out e guy to my left and right, I’d be thinking very strongly of turning around. My personal retreat. Lee made a huge mistake in ordering it, and more than a few people told him it was outright stupid, explained why, and painted a detailed picture of what would happen. Lee did not change his mind. At this point in the war he had seemingly come to believe he was going to win it single-handedly and could beat anybody in the field. But Meade (and later Grant) were not McClellan, Burnside, or Hooker. Longstreet had also previously argued against Lee’s plans at Gettysburg, but also obeyed and did exactly what Lee told him to do. Southern soldiers were in fact notoriously undisciplined but had amazing morale. They quite frequently won by plain unshakable courage, at least in the East. They also had immense admiration for “Marse Robert” and would do nearly anything he ordered, including carrying out insane assaults. And these often worked for them, as even in the days of the rifle a charge, especially across broken ground or wooded terrain, was quite workable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/22 "2013-09-14T01:49:15Z")
If Lee didn’t take a desperate gamble and win Gettysburg, and then march on DC, his other choice was to retreat while the Union continued to gain strength. I’m going to go for Kursk as the answer to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/23 "2013-09-14T02:25:17Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Pickett’s charge was made by a ton of men who HAD to know they were probably going to die. Well, they could not have known something that isn’t true. Most of them didn’t die. Somewhere between 1000 and 2000 of the 12,500 men committed to the attack died; about 4000 were wounded, a thousand captured. That was a horrific loss by the standards of the time, but the lethality of battles then, while shocking to people then, was not at the level of wars of the 20th century. It is worthwhile to note that the Battle of Shiloh, fought in 1862, saw the Union lose 1800 men killed in two full days of fighting, and that was considered absolutely scandalous; Grant was raked through the coals of the media, and he was the guy who WON the battle. We are again presented in this thread with the strange notion that military commanders in the past were all stupid, and that the idea of a frontal assault in 1863 was transparently insane and could never work. But frontal assaults DID work in 1863, just as they had worked in 1862 and would continue to work in 1864. Correctly prepared, at the right time and against the right position, a frontal assault could drive the enemy from his position and inflict enormous, disproportionate losses on the defender. As it happens, Lee’s attack failed that day because he misread Union intentions and strengths, and the preparatory bombardment failed. But attacks had worked lots of times before, and would keep working lots of times after. ---
**Author:** ![Oaken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/85e7bf/32.png) [@Oaken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oaken)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/24 "2013-09-14T03:16:40Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Some sources will claim the Battle of Kursk. 900,000 Germans against nearly 2 million Russians: > > [Battle of Kursk - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk) Can’t say enough good things about Dan Carlin’s _Ghosts of the Osfront_ series. [http://dancarlin.com/dccart/index.php?main\_page=product\_music\_info&products\_id=184](http://dancarlin.com/dccart/index.php?main_page=product_music_info&products_id=184) His Hardcore History podcasts in general are AWESOME [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan\_Carlin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Carlin) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/25 "2013-09-14T09:03:49Z")
Such victories must have been at least a little pyrrhic: afterwards, you come to own a piece of land covered with mangled bodies. How does that get handled? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/26 "2013-09-14T09:33:37Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I’d just append this to _modern_ military organizations. The further back in time you go, the smaller the percentage of non-combatants becomes. I wouldn’t be so sure, actually. I’m not too versed in the logistics of, say, your average Roman legion, but I do know that in the High Middle Ages “one knight” (as reported by chroniclers and such) was really up to 20 or 30 people, all busy keeping their one dude on the horse in fit fighting shape. A knight’s train usually featured at least 5 or 6 horses, too (two battle horses minimum, a travel horse or three, pack horses, maybe a hunting horse too to pass the time between battles), plus whatever nags, donkeys or mules the servants could buy, beg or steal. Even the poorer, landless knights would typically have at least 3 or 4 blokes tagging along. As for footsoldiers and mercenaries, their supply train was no less considerable as they too had plenty of needs : food and forage, armour, arrows by the cart, paymasters & assorted bean counters, surgeons, siege equipment & assorted engineering thingamabobs, trollops… An army on the march was pretty much a small, mobile town 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/27 "2013-09-14T09:38:52Z")
> [@For You](#): > > Such victories must have been at least a little pyrrhic: afterwards, you come to own a piece of land covered with mangled bodies. How does that get handled? Buzzards and local peasants. After a round of looting, of course - those gold teeth are not going to pry themselves out, you know. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/28 "2013-09-14T11:02:58Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > Pickett’s charge was made by a ton of men who HAD to know they were probably going to die. Even the generals had to know this mass frontal assault had little chance at success. How they got their men to continue to walk forward in the face of all that firepower still amazes me. Many of these guys were walking barefoot, and yet they still had the discipline to march onl. If I was lucky enough to survive a canister blast that took out e guy to my left and right, I’d be thinking very strongly of turning around. My personal retreat. In the British army, the sergeants walked just behind the ranks armed with revolvers. They would shoot anyone who turned round to run because if one got away you can be sure that many would follow. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/29 "2013-09-14T13:18:29Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In the British army, the sergeants walked just behind the ranks armed with revolvers. They would shoot anyone who turned round to run because if one got away you can be sure that many would follow. That did not happen in the U.S. and Confederate armies in the Civil War, so it’s not very instructive in discussing that conflict. And to be honest I’d like a cite as to when and where this happened in the British army. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/30 "2013-09-14T13:51:26Z")
50,000 men is a square about 225x225. Big but it would fit on a parade ground. The bigger difficulty would have been simply **feeding** armies that huge. Before mechanized transport, armies had to break apart into foraging parties and strip the land like locusts. ---
**Author:** ![Bert\_Nobbins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@Bert\_Nobbins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bert_Nobbins)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/31 "2013-09-14T13:59:59Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > In the British army, the sergeants walked just behind the ranks armed with revolvers. They would shoot anyone who turned round to run because if one got away you can be sure that many would follow. Never heard of such a thing. Cite, please? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/32 "2013-09-14T14:08:56Z")
Soviet officers did do that at Leningrad. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/33 "2013-09-14T15:33:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Soviet officers did do that at Leningrad. Stalingrad? There wasn’t anywhere to run at Leningrad. I would imagine this wasn’t at all uncommon in the Red Army during WWII, though. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/34 "2013-09-14T15:36:39Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Buzzards and local peasants. After a round of looting, of course - those gold teeth are not going to pry themselves out, you know. I doubt many conscripts had gold teeth then. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/35 "2013-09-14T23:12:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > As for footsoldiers and mercenaries, their supply train was no less considerable as they too had plenty of needs : food and forage, armour, arrows by the cart, paymasters & assorted bean counters, surgeons, siege equipment & assorted engineering thingamabobs, trollops… An army on the march was pretty much a small, mobile town From Wikipedia, but still: “During the Thirty Years’ War, it could occur that a 1,000-man regiment would be accompanied by 500 women and 300 children.” Don’t know what the proportions would be during other wars, before or since. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Soviet officers did do that at Leningrad. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/36 "2013-09-14T23:33:51Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I doubt many conscripts had gold teeth then. Yes, many of them might not have even had many teeth! But for a traveling soldier of that time, it was pretty common to carry all their accumulated wealth & valuables with them. (Where else would they put it. after all? There weren’t any banks. No post office to mail it home, and not even sure when or if they would get home.) So they carried it with them. If they had a wife/girlfriend among the camp followers, they probably left their money & valuables (other than weapons) with them. But many soldiers didn’t, so they would have had a purse of coins tied somewhere on their body. So looting after a battle was a profitable thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/37 "2013-09-15T00:00:11Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Yes, many of them might not have even had many teeth! > > But for a traveling soldier of that time, it was pretty common to carry all their accumulated wealth & valuables with them. (Where else would they put it. after all? There weren’t any banks. No post office to mail it home, and not even sure when or if they would get home.) So they carried it with them. If they had a wife/girlfriend among the camp followers, they probably left their money & valuables (other than weapons) with them. But many soldiers didn’t, so they would have had a purse of coins tied somewhere on their body. So looting after a battle was a profitable thing. Heck, in an era when people left shirts and linens in their wills, stripping the deceased’s clothes was profitable. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/38 "2013-09-15T01:23:20Z")
Don’t forget about the most important bartering items: Nylon stockings, chocolate and cigarettes, very valuable in the dark days of WWII. Interesting to notice that in the movie Dr. Strangelove those items were also part of the survivor kit the airmen had, it was assumed that in an emergency those items would be valuable again just like in WWII. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/39 "2013-09-15T03:44:24Z")
Statistically, based on world population at the time, Cain vs. Abel. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2013, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773/40 "2013-09-15T08:21:28Z")
The last big battle before the Shogunate was established in Japan was [Sekigahara](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sekigahara). Roughly 75,000 on one side and 120,000 on the other. This is from a country rather smaller than the UK, since Hokkaido (about 20% of modern Japan’s land area, and about 3/4 of its arable land) was still held by Ainu until the 1800s, as was Okinawa. Keep in mind, logistical support would at _least_ double, probably quadruple the number of actual people involved. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-largest-battle-in-human-history/668773.md?page=3)