# What was the most ingenious tactics ever used that you have come across? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 18, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065 "2003-05-18T16:42:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/21 "2003-05-19T05:44:37Z")
“The Mossad attempted to kill a IIRC Hamas activist in Jordan by pouring poison in his ear while he was asleep” That´s SOOO Shakespearian… 😃 Anyway; of the top of my head I recall:[The Man Who Never Was](http://africanhistory.about.com/library/prm/blmanwhoneverwas1.htm) ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/22 "2003-05-19T06:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > But all of the books written by Limbaugh/O’Reilly/hannity/Coulter/Tyrell/Aldrich/etall are right on the money.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: And unlike those other authors, at least the footnotes from Conason and Lyons actually _work._ ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/23 "2003-05-19T15:27:33Z")
At the risk of getting severely pilloried for insensitivity and political incorrectness: **911** Tiny band of low-resources political/religious nuts take flying lessons and then hijack commercial airliners and use airliners + fuel to take out prominent and symbolically important building of superpower enemy, killing a few thousand and shocking the world to its collective toenails. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/24 "2003-05-19T21:53:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _jshore:_ > Well, I have to grudgingly admit that this Administration and allies in Congress have come up with lots of pretty ingenius tactics. Here’s a list of a few of them: > > (1) To invent the idea of “double taxation” to try to get people to believe that certain taxes that impact the rich much more than the poor are inherently unfair and must be eliminated. > > (2) Sunset clauses in tax cut legislation so that they can get everything they wanted and still keep the cost figures down…And, then can come back later to get the “sunsetting” of the tax cuts repealed. > > (3) The general use of obfuscation and clever labels to hide the reality of policies such as the “Clear Skies Initiative” and the “Healthy Forests Initiative”. You’re wrong on all three counts. Criticism of the “double tax” on corporate dividends has been around since at least [1943](http://www.taxhistory.org/Civilization/Documents/Treasury/hst23727/23727-2.htm). “Sunset clauses” have been used since at least [Reagan](http://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/magazines/1997/1.2/legupdate.html) (and I’d wager that they’ve been around much longer than that), and were also used throughout the Clinton years. Your implication that they’re used to hide the true cost of a tax cut is also false; they’re typically used to deliver a [short-term jolt to the economy for as long as it’s needed](http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1119/p21s1-usec.html). And creative, ironic, and/or media friendly titles for legislation have been around at least since FDR’s “New Deal” and LBJ’s “Great Society.” ---
**Author:** ![the\_skeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@the\_skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_skeptic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/25 "2003-05-19T23:28:43Z")
without a doubt, coolest tactic ever was used by archimedes. when the romans were trying to invade his island, archimedes is famed to have lined his shore with men holding large, and very well polished, bronze shields (though 12th century historians describe them as hinged hexagonal mirrors). either way, archimedes arranged them in a concave shap and would angle them so that they would reflect and concentrate the sun’s light on the roman ships as they approached. this literally set fire to these wooden ships as they sailed towards his island. “Afterwards, when the beams were reflected in the mirror, a fearful kindling of fire was raised in the ships, and at the distance of a bow-shot he turned them into ashes.” -John Tzetzes, _Book of Histories, Book II_ go greeks! ---
**Author:** ![the\_skeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@the\_skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_skeptic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/26 "2003-05-19T23:34:04Z")
without a doubt, coolest tactic ever was used by archimedes. when the romans were trying to invade his island, archimedes is famed to have lined his shore with men holding large, and very well polished, bronze shields (though 12th century historians describe them as hinged hexagonal mirrors). either way, archimedes arranged them in a concave shap and would angle them so that they would reflect and concentrate the sun’s light on the roman ships as they approached. this literally set fire to these wooden ships as they sailed towards his island. “Afterwards, when the beams were reflected in the mirror, a fearful kindling of fire was raised in the ships, and at the distance of a bow-shot he turned them into ashes.” -John Tzetzes, _Book of Histories, Book II_ go greeks! ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/27 "2003-05-20T01:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Age Quod Agis \* > You’re wrong on all three counts… Well, okay, you are technically correct that I am giving Bush et al. “credit” for tactics that aren’t totally original. But I think you are sort missing the forest through the trees. While, these things may have been used before, Bush et al. have taken them to a new level. For example, while it may be true that some people have criticized the “double tax” on corporate dividends and through the estate tax, it was only recently I believe that this line of argument was brought out into the public discourse, “to the man on the street” so-to-speak. As for the “sunset clauses”, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal about them just today. And, while it said that they had been used before, what is new is the scale of the money involved combined with the use of them not for any good reason like you talk about but rather to hide the true cost of the tax cuts…or to get the cuts under an imposed ceiling. (And, if you doubt this is the real reason, you need look no further than the tax cut proponents who are admitting as much!) Here’s a direct quote from the WSJ article: > [@](#): > > Sunsets aren’t a recent invention, but until recently they were generally used on small-scale experiments with the tax code. In just the past few years, politicians have begun using them to enact big tax cuts without advertising the full impact on the federal budget deficit in the years ahead. The article goes on to point out that in fact the sunset provision, taken literally, undermines some of the arguments for the cuts which were supposed to provide some of their stimulus by changing the way people do things in ways that might be less likely to happen if people aren’t sure the cut is permanent. Finally, sure, I’ll grant you that grandiose or Orwellian titles for legislation have been around for a while (e.g., “The Defense of Marriage Act” jumps to mind). But, I do think that this Administration has taken such double-speak to new levels. After all, “New Deal” and “Great Society” may be grandiose but they are not exactly the opposite of what the legislation really does, as is true of the two cases I cited. ---
**Author:** ![Conflict\_of\_Interest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/57b2e6/32.png) [@Conflict\_of\_Interest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conflict_of_Interest)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/28 "2003-05-20T01:56:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Payton’s Servant \* > \*\*But all of the books written by Limbaugh/O’Reilly/hannity/Coulter/Tyrell/Aldrich/etall are right on the money.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: \*\* Did anyone ever say they were? Why is it that you can never stick to the topic of the thread? You seem to go in an try to attack anything and anyone that doesn’t agree with your narrow mind. Grow up. And maybe in the process you will learn how to act. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/29 "2003-05-20T05:11:46Z")
The whole DOT COM debacle was a pretty interesting tactic. Granted it failed in the end but for the major players it worked out pretty damn well. They pocketed millions and evaded criminal prosecution (I’m specifically thinking of WorldCom but there are others). Of course this came at huge expense to millions of other investors but for those few at the top of the pile they made a fortune all through clever, or even not so clever and just blatant, manipulation of the system. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/30 "2003-05-20T05:29:58Z")
Call me cruel and insensitive, but I’d also put 9/11 up there. Simply incredible how they simultaneously hijacked 4 planes over US soil. ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/31 "2003-05-20T19:23:42Z")
Gunnery Sergeant Dan Daly at the Battle of Belleau Wood. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/32 "2003-05-20T19:50:14Z")
**Ale** , great call about The Man who Never Was. Too many of the examples in this thread are praising execution or determination or simple lying, not ingenuity. Um, **C of I, Payton’s** point was clearly about your dismissal of material that undermines your beliefs as biased, for no apparent reason other than its disagreement with you. Try supporting your own point and actually _debating_ others’ and you might actually convince someone besides yourself, friend. Read this board a little while longer and you’ll get a better understanding of what constitutes acceptable behavior here, okay? Oh yes, the OP - I’d go for the Martians’ arranging a radio broadcast of a fictional story about their landing on Earth to coincide with their real one, so nobody would believe it later. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/33 "2003-05-20T23:29:09Z")
Man! I have the \*best \*story for this thread, but no time to post it! Maybe tomorrow… * * * Fagjunk Theology: Not just for sodomite propagandists anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/34 "2003-05-21T00:30:45Z")
Who was that American soldier who used a duck call to lure German soldiers out of their trenches in WWI? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/35 "2003-05-21T00:52:56Z")
When Kats set up us the bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/36 "2003-05-21T01:21:28Z")
Joshua Lawrence Chamberlin’s manuever at little Round Top which quite possibly saved the Union Army at Gettysburg. ---
**Author:** ![Quack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e99b99/32.png) [@Quack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quack)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/37 "2003-05-21T01:39:05Z")
Wrong **Scylla**. _I_ set us up the bomb. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/38 "2003-05-21T01:45:43Z")
Democrats – doing everything they can to make/keep the economy as bad as possible so they can use it as an issue in the next election (prosperity with a republican in office would be disastrous to the democrats). ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/39 "2003-05-21T01:47:16Z")
Bugs bunny in a dress. He knew Elmer was no match for it. ---
**Author:** ![Somnambulist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Somnambulist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Somnambulist)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065/40 "2003-05-21T10:55:05Z")
My SOs finely balanced strategy in the use of love, sex and emotional blackmail to get, well, pretty much anything she wants from me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-most-ingenious-tactics-ever-used-that-you-have-come-across/176065.md?page=3)