# What was the point of Saruman in LotR? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [January 7, 2026, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418 "2026-01-07T01:17:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418/21 "2026-01-07T22:23:10Z")
Regarding Saruman’s motive for turning, what I’ve carried away from the various sources is that Saruman/Curumo had deep seated self-image issues. He saw the mission to Middle Earth as his chance to prove himself; hence his jealousy of Gandalf and his increasing disparagement of both the elves and the heirs of Numenor whom he saw as frustratingly useless to his goal of being the big hero who defeated Sauron. He was determined to make it all about him, whereas Gandalf simply did his best never even hoping for a guarantee of success. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418/22 "2026-01-07T22:31:04Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > > Did he also develop an explosive, like gunpowder? > > Yup, identified by his adversaries simply as “some devilry” or maybe a “blasting fire”. [ETA: ninja’d by @muldoonthief! we hates it forever 🤣] > (Tolkien sidestepped a lot of chemistry issues in his worldbuilding by having the books nominally derived from source texts written by technologically-incurious hobbits.) I think this is also due to the author (a veteran of the Great War) holding a profound dislike for “technology”. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418/23 "2026-01-07T22:45:39Z")
This quote from “The Hobbit” is telling: > It is not unlikely that they [goblins/orcs] invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosions always delighted them, ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418/24 "2026-01-07T23:03:12Z")
Yes. Tokien was not enamored of technological advancement. In his youth, he watched the industrialization of Birmingham and environs eat up the forests and small farmsteads he loved. As a young and not especially gung-ho communications officer in WWI (the first truly “industrial” war), he watched the fruits of technological progress kill dozens of his friends and thousands of young soldiers on both sides. That’s the reason that Saruman is painted, not just as a formidable wizard, but a talented and ruthless industrialist. Saruman’s final spiteful play in the Shire is considered to have been a retelling of the fate of the lovely wilderness he grew up with, and the Scouring wish-fulfillment about driving out the human orcs that changed the Midlands into [the Black Country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Country). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2026, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418/25 "2026-01-07T23:49:01Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Tolkien was writing: a mythic history. He wasn’t trying to maximize the tightness of the plot, or the amount of action or melodrama. As in a real history, things exist and do stuff that may be inconvenient for particular storytelling purposes. And Tolkien wanted to capture that feel in the Lord of the Rings. Yeah, I was tempted to respond to the OP just by saying “Because that’s the way it _happened_!” ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2026, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418/26 "2026-01-08T00:25:27Z")
If the Red Book of Westmarch says it happened who was he to change it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-point-of-saruman-in-lotr/1026418.md?page=1)