# What was the pumpkin that Peter Peter ate?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [November 7, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519 "2022-11-07T17:48:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@EdwardFound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardFound)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/1 "2022-11-07T17:48:44Z")
In the English nursery rhyme, is Peter Peter’s “pumpkin” the big North American orange squash, or did that word refer to some other melon grown in England back in the day?
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### Author:  [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/2 "2022-11-07T18:05:55Z")
Do other large squashes get big enough to hide your wife’s body in them? I’ve seen huge pumpkins that would serve the purpose, but can’t recall seeing any squashes (or melons) that would be large enough to suit that purpose.
Since the poem dates from 1797 I’d think that the Europeans would have been familiar with American pumpkins.
> **[Peter, Peter, Pumpkin Eater](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter,_Peter,_Pumpkin_Eater)**
>
> "Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater" is an English language nursery rhyme. It has a Roud Folk Song Index number of 13497.
> Common modern versions include:
> Peter, Peter pumpkin eater,
> Had a wife but couldn't keep her;
> He put her in a pumpkin shell
> And there he kept her very well.
>
> Peter, Peter pumpkin eater,
> Had another and didn't love her;
> Peter learned to read and spell,
> And then he loved her very well.
The Cinderalla story dates back even further (1597?), but the original story did not have a pumpkin carriage. Looks like the first story with a pumpkin was published in 1697, so by then Europeans were familiar with the American pumpkin.
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### Author:  [@EdwardFound](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardFound)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/3 "2022-11-07T20:49:47Z")
OK, I guess the rhyme is recent enough that it’s not surprising it would reference an American import crop. I wondered because names for plants and animals aren’t always used consistently across the pond. I thought there might have been some native European “pumpkin” referenced in the rhyme, and the name later came to be applied to the American plant.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/4 "2022-11-07T20:56:18Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#):
>
> Do other large squashes get big enough to hide your wife’s body in them?
Probably not, but shoes generally aren’t big enough to serve as housing, either, and that didn’t stop that Old Lady.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [November 7, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/5 "2022-11-07T22:41:48Z")
Even in modern America, most pumpkin-eating isn’t of the big orange gourd. There are smaller squashes that are also called pumpkins, which don’t look like much but are tastier for pies and such.
Aside: Most of the edible squashes, including pumpkins and zucchini, are all the same species. So maybe it doesn’t matter much precisely which varietal we’re talking about.
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### Author:  [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2022, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/6 "2022-11-08T05:11:55Z")
**What It’s Really About** : Murder.
The wife that “couldn’t be kept” in this rhyme, which the _Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes_ notes first appeared in the 1790s, didn’t keep running away or anything — rather, she was supposedly a prostitute. Some historians believe that [Peter the pumpkin-eater](http://nehphilosophersofeducationseminar.org/POEMT_2020/PDFS/hefko_POE2020.pdf) tired of his wife’s extra-curricular activities, then murdered her and hid her body in a pumpkin. An even more outrageous interpretation of Peter, Peter, pumpkin-eater’s meaning is that it’s about the 13th century English King John, who famously bricked a [rebellious noble’s wife into a wall to starve to death.](https://orangemarmeladepress.wordpress.com/2014/12/05/peter-peter-pumpkin-eater/)
> **[15 Nursery Rhymes With Bizarre Hidden Meanings](https://www.bustle.com/life/nursery-rhymes-with-bizarre-hidden-meanings-because-peter-pumpkin-eater-is-a-murderer)**
>
> What's the meaning of Peter Pumpkin Eater or Baa Baa Black Sheep? Here are the bizarre hidden meanings of 15 nursery rhymes you remember from childhood.
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### Author:  [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/7 "2022-11-08T08:30:12Z")
There’s nothing called a pumpkin in Britain that predates the name as it applies to cucurbits.
Jack-o-lanterns, prior to the introduction of pumpkins, were apparently carved from large turnips.
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### Author:  [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)
#### Post date: [November 8, 2022, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-pumpkin-that-peter-peter-ate/974519/8 "2022-11-08T11:19:40Z")
And still are. Best thing to do with them, IMO.