# What was the purpose of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405 "2023-02-26T19:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/114 "2023-02-28T23:23:42Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > To see if they would obey Him. I think this is it more than anything else. Obiously, I don’t believe in the story literally, but there are many things I don’t believe in while still finding their history and “in universe” logic and iconography very interesting. I think the Tree of Knowledge is simply a top level abstraction for any and all kinds of sin. At this level, the concept has only one property, which is disobedience. The whole range of possible transgressions could be considered to be derived from it. I think whoever originally conceived this story specifically opted to have the first humans commit an act which in any other context would be almost inconsequential, to emphasize the notion that it was the disobedience to God, rather than the actual deed, that mattered. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/115 "2023-02-28T23:26:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you’re accepting any part of an Abrahamic religion, you have to accept that God is omnipotent and omniscient. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/116 "2023-02-28T23:34:53Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I think whoever originally conceived this story specifically opted to have the first humans commit an act which in any other context would be almost inconsequential, to emphasize the notion that it was the disobedience to God, rather than the actual deed, that mattered. I’m not asking you especially, just quoting you, but wouldn’t a benelovent, all-loving father, just like any loving parent, have thought “Look, how cute, the kids are rebelling the first time. Everybody loves a rebel, don’t they?” Instead he condemned them and all of their ilk until today. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/117 "2023-02-28T23:59:36Z")
To me it’s a metaphor for humans evolving to the point they were responsible for their actions. God was telling them that if they ate the fruit life was going to become a lot more complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/118 "2023-03-01T00:11:47Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Cite? > All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, > But He does according to His will in the host of heaven > And among the inhabitants of earth; > And no one can ward off His hand > Or say to Him, ‘What have You done?’ > And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” > All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Allah; and He is the Mighty, the Wise. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth; He quickeneth and He giveth death; and He is Able to do all things. He is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things. > Great is our Lord and abundant in strength; > His understanding is infinite. > For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. > And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/119 "2023-03-01T00:16:06Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > To see if they would obey Him. The thing is God already knew that they would disobey him. He didn’t need to run the experiment to find out. So maybe the point was to teach Adam and Eve. If God had just told Adam and Eve that they would disobey him given the right circumstances, they probably would have denied it. They would have said they would always obey God’s rules. So God had to create a situation which made it possible for Adam and Eve to disobey him in order to demonstrate to them that they were capable of disobedience. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/120 "2023-03-01T00:17:27Z")
I can’t recall seeing any passage in Genesis that even hinted that that was the intent, and he certainly didn’t tell them that directly…unless this particular discussion happened off stage. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/121 "2023-03-01T00:19:08Z")
…and then he took everything away from them and kicked them out of the house. ---
**Author:** ![P-man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/p-man/32/3606_2.png) [@P-man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P-man)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/122 "2023-03-01T00:22:43Z")
That’s the thing with texts that were written thousands of years ago and passed down orally before that. They lend themselves to WAGs. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/123 "2023-03-01T00:39:46Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > …and then he took everything away from them and kicked them out of the house. It gets weirder than that. If you accept Christian belief, then that means that at the moment God was condemning humanity to fall, he was already aware he was going to later reverse that decision and make redemption possible. So if God knew he was going to change his mind later, why did he still make the initial decision to condemn humanity? Why not just skip ahead to the forgiveness he knew he was going to adopt? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/124 "2023-03-01T00:50:13Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > That doesn’t gel with the Christian notion that the act was the original sin. A sin, a moral failing, the greatest moral failing of all, not the mere experience that there are bad things in life. Animals can’t sin, because they don’t know right from wrong. You can train a dog not to eat out of the garbage, but you can’t make it understand _why_ it’s bad to eat out of the garbage. And if a dog breaks its training and eats out of the garbage anyway, it’s not because its an evil dog. It’s just being a dog. Pre-fall humans were like dogs. They might have been disobedient sometimes, but that’s just because they were animals who didn’t know any better. When they ate the fruit and gained knowledge of good and evil, they understood _why_ the thing they had done was bad. The equivalent, if I may torture my own metaphor, of your dog being half way through the garbage before suddenly realizing that he’s ruining the hardwood floors. So its the “original sin” in the sense that it was the first act that a human _felt guilty for doing_ - the first time they’d done something bad, and recognized it as bad. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I’m not asking you especially, just quoting you, but wouldn’t a benelovent, all-loving father, just like any loving parent, have thought “Look, how cute, the kids are rebelling the first time. Everybody loves a rebel, don’t they?” Instead he condemned them and all of their ilk until today. I don’t know about “condemned.” Taking the story quasi-literally, we have pre-fruit humans who are basically tall chimps, and we have post-fruit humans who are _people_. They have self-awareness, which means they also have stuff like guilt, and shame, and Fear of Death that goes along with that. But they also have all the good stuff that goes with intelligence, too: art, and music, and faith, and hope, and so on. And they have a Descartean sense of self. They aren’t just humans anymore, they _know_ they’re humans. God presumably has the power to undo whatever changes the fruit made to them, but doing so means unmaking the people who they turned into when they ate the fruit, erasing everything they’ve gained to give them back everything they’ve lost. Is the benevolent action here really to _Flowers to Algernon_ humanity back into pre-sapience? Is that a deal _you’d_ take, if it were offered? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/125 "2023-03-01T00:54:00Z")
Maybe He wanted to give them free will? They had it, and used it. Maybe it was a way to say, make good choices? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/126 "2023-03-01T01:18:16Z")
Doesn’t square with the almost universal image of them being driven out of Eden, frightened and ashamed, does it? ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/127 "2023-03-01T01:26:52Z")
I don’t understand it. Like the bible says, Who can know the mind of God? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/128 "2023-03-01T01:31:37Z")
“Because I said so!” should be the last resort, not the first. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/129 "2023-03-01T01:38:28Z")
> [@SuntanLotion](#): > > Who can know the mind of God? When was the last time God made any effort to explain himself? ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/130 "2023-03-01T01:40:43Z")
It was a trap, to dispose of pests that got into the garden… ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/131 "2023-03-01T04:23:24Z")
Guys in red suits poking you with pitchforks, and, my god, the heat, THE HEAT! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/132 "2023-03-01T11:14:59Z")
They were told to be fruitful and multiply. Apparently lack of fruit kept Adam from noticing there was a naked woman with him. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2023, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405/133 "2023-03-01T15:43:59Z")
> [@P-man](#): > > To me it’s a metaphor for humans evolving to the point they were responsible for their actions. God was telling them that if they ate the fruit life was going to become a lot more complicated. For some reason the _Friends_ theme song started up in my head as I read this. So God knew that they’d disobey him. Therefore he set up a situation where people would disobey him, in order that people would learn that they shouldn’t have disobeyed him? And then made the whole point of the lesson murky and unclear? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-purpose-of-the-tree-of-the-knowledge-of-good-and-evil/980405.md?page=7)