# What was the real problem with "Star Trek Voyager"? Acting or writing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380 "2011-06-05T07:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/41 "2011-06-06T04:57:12Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > From some of what I’ve read or heard, this was _exactly_ what happened during Voyager’s production—though I can’t come up with an exact cite, off the top of my head. It might have been from the [sfdebris](http://sfdebris.com/startrek.asp) video review series (which is a hoot). Okay, that’s too cool not to do a slight hijack. That’s the other guy I was talking about. Do you agree that he could be a doper? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/42 "2011-06-06T05:02:04Z")
I’m not a Mulgrew fan, but I’d say writing, but also the straitjacket of _Star Trek_ itself, limiting character development in a number of annoying ways: [ul][li]No intercharacter conflicts of any maturity of significance, which strikes me as full-on impossible considering the basic premise of the show was (or at least was supposed to be) a forced merging of a Starfleet and Maquis crew. Sure, we had Bellana throwing her half-Klingon tantrums (most of them off-screen) and that one episode where Tuvok pulls four former-Maquis crew members into line (none of whom were ever seen again), but an ongoing mutual dislike between two characters that was a fraction that of Tigh/Thrace? Not even a hint. Siska hates Janeway? It can’t be that she just hates Janeway - she has to be a Cardassian double agent![/li][li]Determinedly kid-friendly storylines. Naomi Wildman (soap-opera aged from infant to preteen practically overnight) and her education becomes an ongoing theme. Neelix is just a big ol’ teddy bear, telling stories, annoying “Mister Vulcan”.[/li][li]Adult but not _too_ adult storylines - Kes in her later appearances and 7 of 9 through _all_ of hers wear those catsuits. Why? To titillate the fanboys in an overbearingly blunt and obvious way. But when it’s time for the characters to actually _have sex_, it’s so layered with pointless complexity and baggage that even a determined fanboy would ask “why bother?”[/ul][/li] I figure the problems with _Voyager_ is that it represents a concentrated version of the problems of _Star Trek_ itself in its post-1987 incarnation. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/43 "2011-06-06T06:41:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > DS9 had a lot of issues season 1.\*\* Terry Farrell was a huge, huge liability. \*\*They managed to create some great character moments. The friendship of Miles O’Brien and Doctor Bashir. Odo and Kira’s friendship. Sisko and Dax (Avery Brooks deserves a medal for carrying Farrell in those scenes). My favorite was Garak and Bashir’s weekly lunch. Those scenes made the space station come alive. There were people living there. Later those personal bonds were important in the War they have to fight. I thought adding Worf really helped. Wait what? I like Dax! What was wrong with her? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/44 "2011-06-06T07:25:52Z")
Dax was fine. Terry Farrell often zoned out in scenes. Like she was doing her grocery list in her head for after work. Or wondering if the drying cleaning is ready to pick up. She wasn’t giving any energy to the other actors. She was just sort of standing there like a piece of cardboard. Actors I knew in college hated working with actor like that. They are working their butts off projecting energy across the stage and it sort of dies in a black hole where a bad actor is standing and shuffling his feet… Terry did ok delivering lines. Even then there was little connection between her and the other actors. Robert Beltran was the same way on Voyager. I think in his case he really didn’t care after the first season or two. A few times I’d swear he was asleep in the background of the scene. 😉 Just my opinion after seeing Actors up close. I took the same classes, but never was any good. I liked being off stage, stage manager, hanging lights, or whatever they wanted. I recall being up past 2Am with the lighting plot, cutting and insert the color gels. Then we needed to focus the lights and that took people on stage. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/45 "2011-06-06T07:30:36Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Okay, that’s too cool not to do a slight hijack. That’s the other guy I was talking about. Do you agree that he could be a doper? I don’t know if he _is_ a Doper, but he’d certainly fit in. And I could sure as hell see Dopers tearing into “Threshold” (the Warp 10-newts one) and Enterprise’s “Dear Doctor”\* even _worse_ than he did, and in greater detail. 😃 \*(The one where they take an extremely poor grasp of the theory—I’d go so far as to say the _concept_—of evolution to essentially justify genocide by the ship’s doctor. And treat it like a good thing. And apparently the executives made them change the written ending to eliminate any disagreement on that point between the officers by the end.) :eek: ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/46 "2011-06-06T08:05:05Z")
I missed the early Voyager episodes with the Kazan, but watched much of the last few seasons. It wasn’t BSG, it was the replacement for TNG, & it apparently was successful enough to keep going for seven years. It was pretty goofy, but I guess watching it late at night, I didn’t pick it apart as much as you guys. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/47 "2011-06-06T08:33:44Z")
I saw most of the series, only missing a few episodes here and there. I think a few of the episodes stood out. _[Year of Hell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_Hell)_, a 2-parter, was one I found enjoyable, but once again, they hit the reset button. However, at least the reset button allowed them to explore what some of you are talking about - the terrible wear-and-tear on the ship, the loss of crew, etc. For a couple episodes, it showed what it would be like for a ship to be 70,000 light years from home. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/48 "2011-06-06T12:46:31Z")
> [@astro](#): > > In reading the thread [about Star Trek Voyager actor Robert Picardo](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=611136) I recalled that I did not see the entire series because I stopped watching the show about halfway in. > > I can’t really put my finger on it, but the show irritated me on some primal level that the other Star Trek series did not. The special effects were quite good, and the ship looked great, but a lot of the characters were like bad cartoons. > > I could never figure out if the actors were awful, or the writing was to blame. Just watching the show riled me to the point I eventually just avoided it, and I do love my outer space sci-fi, so that took some doing. > > What was the root problem with Star Trek Voyager? The fact that someone greenlighted a pilot in the first place… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/49 "2011-06-06T14:03:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve wondered this myself. I was first introduced to Voyager from retellings made for people overseas What is a “retelling”? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/50 "2011-06-06T14:38:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Terry Farrell often zoned out in scenes. Like she was doing her grocery list in her head for after work. Or wondering if the drying cleaning is ready to pick up. She wasn’t giving any energy to the other actors. She was just sort of standing there like a piece of cardboard. I don’t think she was doing that because she was a bad actor. I think she was playing the character that way on purpose. She figured someone who lived several lifetimes would be serene and wise and tend to be above it all. Later she realized, instead someone who lived several lifetimes could have the attitude, “What the Hell!” and she started playing that way and the show was much better for it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/51 "2011-06-06T15:01:03Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > My favourite lines was from the first season. I can’t remember it verbatim, but it was Janeway, staring down the evil aliens on the viewscreen and trying to sound threatening: “Give my crewman’s lungs back!” Was that the one with Neelix having a holographic lung? Really stupid idea. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/52 "2011-06-06T15:03:47Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Robert Beltran was the same way on Voyager. I think in his case he really didn’t care after the first season or two. A few times I’d swear he was asleep in the background of the scene. 😉 Actual Robert Beltran quotes about Voyager: > [@](#): > > I wouldn’t say I had a bitter taste about the show, but it makes me a lot less caring about the show when the writers don’t seem to care about all the cast. When that happens, I check out right away and give as little as possible emotional involvement as I can. So I would have to say, honestly, that for probably the last two or two and a half years, I haven’t quite read a full Voyager script. It’s not necessary, because I already know what’s going to happen. I don’t want to put myself to the aggravation. > [@](#): > > "To be honest with you, I haven’t read a Voyager script all the way through for about two years now. I read my scenes. And unless they tell me I’m going to die in this particular episode, then I don’t see any big change I need to know about. […] I think the only one who reads the scripts any more is Kate. I’m sure she does (Janeway voice) “There’s not enough lines in here for me. What’s that Seven of Nine line doing there. That’s my line!” Picardo does, because he’s the same way. (Picardo voice) “That’s a funny line but its not mine.” Garrett probably does too because he’s always trying to ingratiate himself with the producers. You all look so lovely and fun, having fun. It’s great to see all of you. So I don’t read the scripts any more very often because I know what’s going to happen. It’s all been done before. It’s a variation on a variation on a variation, so consequently when I show up on the set I know my lines just long enough to say them and forget them immediately. So if we need one or two takes more that I’d planned for I’m in trouble, and the other actors know this and they’re like, (agonized voice) “Oh, say the lines perfectly or they’ll make us do it again!” But what can I say? If you’re not inspired to learn the lines, it doesn’t matter. Because you can’t tell from the final product–I don’t think–because eventually they get a tape they can use, and you’ve said your lines right. Eventually everybody’s happy. I’m sure there’s some guy in a factory in Detroit whose sees a little nick on the bolt and goes “Shall we start the car all over again?” It’s the same thing. It’s a factory. " ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/53 "2011-06-06T15:37:08Z")
One of the purest kinds of Hells has to be the one where an actor is in a position of performing a role in a work where he absolutely loathes both, but his contract/bills demand that he stay aboard and at least make a pretense. I honestly don’t know how they can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/54 "2011-06-06T16:05:48Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/55 "2011-06-06T16:47:34Z")
Writing. After the abysmal pilot episode, the first series episode could have been titled “Voyager falls into a hole”. It had all the ST cliches, right down to two characters with animosity inventing a new particle to solve the problem. I stopped watching. Every season I heard more and more about how the next season was going to be better for stupid reasons the producers thought up: “We’re dumping the stupid villains!”, “We’re adding T&A in place of the Space Elf”, “Hey Look! We’re nerfing the Borg and making introducing something WORSE!”, “We’re REALLY dumbing down the science next season!”. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/56 "2011-06-06T19:49:55Z")
Thanks for posting that comment. It confirms some of the good things I’ve heard about Picardo. As an Actor he’s being totally honest. Great line, but it belongs to someone else. You can’t get more unselfish than that. I know in the later seasons the Doctor character took over a few too many episodes. I guess the writers found him easy to write for. At least it sounds like Picardo tried to say, “hey there’s other actors here too.” > [@](#): > > **(Picardo voice) "That’s a funny line but its not mine.** ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/57 "2011-06-06T20:03:15Z")
He was the un-Shatner. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/58 "2011-06-06T20:11:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Thanks for posting that comment. It confirms some of the good things I’ve heard about Picardo. As an Actor he’s being totally honest. Great line, but it belongs to someone else. You can’t get more unselfish than that. > > I know in the later seasons the Doctor character took over a few too many episodes. I guess the writers found him easy to write for. At least it sounds like Picardo tried to say, “hey there’s other actors here too.” I’m pretty sure you have misunderstood _Robert Beltran’s characterization_ of Robert Picardo. He’s quoted there saying Picardo is “the same way” as Kate Mulgrew. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/59 "2011-06-06T20:32:41Z")
The story where the former Maquis (was he Betazoid?) was a serial killer, and Tuvok tries desperately to understand him, and getting into trouble with mind melds. (Found it: Season 2, episode 16, _Meld_) The Doctor had a funny line: "Vulcan mind melds - utter foolishness. Anybody with an ounce of sense wouldn’t share his brain with someone else. Would you? I certainly wouldn’t. And of course, when something goes wrong, and believe me, it does more often than they’d like to admit, the first thing they call out is “Doctor!” Anyway, I thought Crewman Sudor was well played by Brad Dourif. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/60 "2011-06-06T21:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Terry Farrell often zoned out in scenes. Like she was doing her grocery list in her head for after work. Or wondering if the drying cleaning is ready to pick up. From what I’ve seen of her out-of-character, going over her grocery list in her head would have been beyond her mental capabilities. And since we’ve moved on to talking about the Doctor, Picardo had a really great ad-lib in one of the earlier episodes. He was complaining about how nobody ever turned him off when they were done, and quipped “Damn it, I’m a doctor, not a light switch”. The truly great part being that he never watched any of the previous Trek shows, and didn’t know about McCoy’s famous (and much-parodied) line at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380.md?page=4)