# What was the real problem with "Star Trek Voyager"? Acting or writing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380 "2011-06-05T07:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/61 "2011-06-06T21:13:03Z")
I was never a huge fan of the show, but I was annoyed at how often these lines seemed to pop up: > [@](#): > > Janeway: What do you think we should do, Tuvok? > > Tuvok: I propose a Vulcan Mind Meld. Seriously guys, it’s not as special if you do one every other episode. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/62 "2011-06-06T21:31:19Z")
The tvtropes page states that even Kate Mulgrew hated the way Janeway was written. So there’s that. > [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Chimera** :For a moment, I misread that as “frak”. > > _shudder_ To be fair, of the series captains, Janeway is the one I’d most like to frak. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Other than that, while every TV show to some extent has a reset button to put everything back to default between episodes, it was particularly blatant on Voyager. They may as well have ended each episode with Janeway slapping a big R.E.S.E.T. button every episode. Like “Year of Hell”, the two-parter that actually had them wearing their ship apart and dealing with all the issues of supply limits, crew loss, etc. Only to be whisked away into the ether at the end. > [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Tom what’sisface, the unappealing rebel but oh-so genius pilot with the fixation on the 1960s (because it is so easy to find people nowadays fixated on the 1660s), They’re called “Renaissance Faire enthusiasts” and they’re everywhere. And then there’re the Steampunk Victorians who are cropping up. Finding people who have a bizarre interest in a specific previous era is not difficult. Having one character on the show with a specific time period fascination is not bizarre. Sure, he sucked others in, but most of them were just along for the ride. And it’s not like he was simultaneously the 1960s enthusiast and the Rennaissance enthusiast and the Steampunk enthusiast and the Caveman enthusiast. And at least they kept that through several episodes, not a one time and then discard detail. > [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > _[Year of Hell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_of_Hell)_, a 2-parter, was one I found enjoyable, but once again, they hit the reset button. However, at least the reset button allowed them to explore what some of you are talking about - the terrible wear-and-tear on the ship, the loss of crew, etc. For a couple episodes, it showed what it would be like for a ship to be 70,000 light years from home. Except they should have done that for the whole show, not just a two part special episode that was reset at the end. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/63 "2011-06-06T21:38:15Z")
:smack: Wow, I walked right into that door. ☹ So he’s bitching that the line isn’t his. > [@spark240](#): > > I’m pretty sure you have misunderstood _Robert Beltran’s characterization_ of Robert Picardo. He’s quoted there saying Picardo is “the same way” as Kate Mulgrew. I think we’re beginning to find the core reason that they never could fix Voyager. Bad writing and some bad attitude on the acting side too. I find it more and more remarkable that they managed to fix TNG enough that there were a lot of great shows. Lots of crap ones too. But, compared to Voyager at least TNG is usually watchable. I doubt DS9 could have happened unless TNG succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/64 "2011-06-06T21:39:37Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > One of the purest kinds of Hells has to be the one where an actor is in a position of performing a role in a work where he absolutely loathes both, but his contract/bills demand that he stay aboard and at least make a pretense. I honestly don’t know how they can do it. Pretty sure a good 90% of people with jobs have the same experience on a fairly regular basis. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/65 "2011-06-06T21:41:23Z")
Remember too, that was Beltran’s characterization of Picardo, and he didn’t like the show, didn’t like the writers, really wasn’t too fond of many of the other actors and didn’t like the science fiction genre in general. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/66 "2011-06-06T21:47:26Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Remember too, that was Beltran’s characterization of Picardo, and he didn’t like the show, didn’t like the writers, really wasn’t too fond of many of the other actors and didn’t like the science fiction genre in general. Apparently not enough to stop accepting the paychecks. Did the producers not know? Why not kill off his character? I wouldn’t want someone around who didn’t want to be there. There is probably a whole city full of aspiring actors who would have jumped at the chance to get on a regular TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/67 "2011-06-06T21:59:59Z")
> [@Mister Rik](#): > > The series had one of my favorite lines of all time, though: > > “Get the cheese to sickbay! The doctor should look at it as soon as possible.” – B’Elanna Torres (Star Trek: Voyager, “Learning Curve”) > [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > My favourite lines was from the first season. I can’t remember it verbatim, but it was Janeway, staring down the evil aliens on the viewscreen and trying to sound threatening: “Give my crewman’s lungs back!” To me, these two quotes strongly support the hypothesis that the big problem was the writing. One thing the world learned from the Star Wars prequels is that you can have talent like Liam Neeson, Natalie Protman, and Ewan McGregor, but there is still no way to polish a turd like “Hold me like you did on Naboo!” Voyager had crap dialogue and couldn’t seem to decide what exactly they wanted to do with their characters. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/68 "2011-06-06T22:02:30Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Apparently not enough to stop accepting the paychecks. Did the producers not know? > > Why not kill off his character? I wouldn’t want someone around who didn’t want to be there. There is probably a whole city full of aspiring actors who would have jumped at the chance to get on a regular TV show. Well, across five tv series and thirteen or so movies they had the courage to actually kill…four major character? And that includes Pulaski. If you’re in the main cast of a Trek show you’re pretty safe. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/69 "2011-06-06T22:11:50Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Well, across five tv series and thirteen or so movies they had the courage to actually kill…four major character? And that includes Pulaski. If you’re in the main cast of a Trek show you’re pretty safe. > -Joe They didn’t kill off Pulaski. It’s hard to say how many major characters TREK killed off, because DS9 screws up the count. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/70 "2011-06-06T22:44:21Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Well, across five tv series and thirteen or so movies they had the courage to actually kill…four major character? I’m a little curious how you got _that_ many. If by “major” you mean “listed in the opening credits” and by “kill” you mean “made and stayed dead”… Well, there’s Jim Kirk and Jadzia Dax, and the former _could_ come back, in theory. I forget what Ben Sisko’s status was at the end of DS9. I don’t recall any lasting Voyager fatalities. Trip Tucker? There are libraries that are more dangerous than _Trek_ shows. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/71 "2011-06-06T23:17:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > They didn’t kill off Pulaski. She fell down that open elevator shaft. When they went back in time. To L.A. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/72 "2011-06-06T23:42:36Z")
> [@Tangent](#): > > Neelix. Damnit! I was going to post the same one-word response! Since I can’t be that pithy, I’ll expand: Neelix because he was not only annoying in himself but emblematic of everything that was wrong about the show. For a start, as restrained as Tuvok is, being constantly called ‘Mr Vulcan’ and told that everything about his species was wrong would have made anyone flip and kill the puke-headed one. The series did get a lot better after 7of9 joined. Being very nice to look at isn’t enough - she had some interesting storylines and was one of the few characters who was allowed to grow. Psychologically, I mean. They didn’t go as far as they could with the premise of her character, but they did pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/73 "2011-06-07T00:29:34Z")
Quoth **Irishman** : > [@](#): > > And it’s not like he was simultaneously the 1960s enthusiast and the Rennaissance enthusiast and the Steampunk enthusiast and the Caveman enthusiast. And that’s exactly the problem. Well, not _exactly_, but approaching it. Modern Renaissance enthusiasts will generally mix, match, and combine material from across several centuries of history. If Paris were fixated on the 1900s in general, and were often seen juxtaposing Flappers and the Beatles, and the like, then that would have been plausible. But focusing in on a specific decade, hundreds of years later? That doesn’t have the air of verisimilitude. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/74 "2011-06-07T01:36:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > They didn’t kill off Pulaski. > > It’s hard to say how many major characters TREK killed off, because DS9 screws up the count. Aw god, I mixed up her fate on LA LAW. Damn, that’s too funny. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/75 "2011-06-07T01:38:05Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m a little curious how you got _that_ many. If by “major” you mean “listed in the opening credits” and by “kill” you mean “made and stayed dead”… > > Well, there’s Jim Kirk and Jadzia Dax, and the former _could_ come back, in theory. I forget what Ben Sisko’s status was at the end of DS9. I don’t recall any lasting Voyager fatalities. Trip Tucker? > > There are libraries that are more dangerous than _Trek_ shows. I was thinking… Tasha Yar Jadzia Dax (which was kind of a cheat because of the Dax thing, but may as well give it to them) Pulaski (where I was wrong) Kirk Those were my incorrect four. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/76 "2011-06-07T02:06:37Z")
Tasha Yar, right… forgot about her. Neelix was the biggest symptom of what I called the “kid’s show” elements. The “Mister Vulcan” teasing… [this is the scene that shows a measured justifiable response.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWlv_02fRyY) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/77 "2011-06-07T02:56:36Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What is a “retelling”? Well, most people would call them recaps, but I think she did a little bit more. Here’s an [example](http://web.archive.org/web/20050307074522/http://members.aol.com/Homespawn/nonsequitur.html)from the Internet Archive. As I said, they contained reviews as well. She writes less like she’s repeating back what she saw, and more like she’s telling us the exact same story. It’s not as different as I remember, but I still see where I got the idea to call them retellings. I read these because, by the time I was exposed to Voyager, it was off the air. They finally started showing repeats while I was still reading these, and I found I’d rather read than watch. Part of that was that the show was so incredibly dark. I mean it was literally hard to see. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/78 "2011-06-07T03:16:40Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I stopped watching. Every season I heard more and more about how the next season was going to be better for stupid reasons the producers thought up: “We’re dumping the stupid villains!”, “We’re adding T&A in place of the Space Elf”, “Hey Look! We’re nerfing the Borg and making introducing something WORSE!”, “We’re REALLY dumbing down the science next season!”. Unfortunately, due to major issues in my personal life and living arrangements at the time, I had to stop watching Voyager after, I think, the second season. But I later heard about Seven of Nine being added to the show as fan service, and looked her up on the Internet to see what that was about. Now maybe Jeri Ryan is a case of “you have to see her in motion”, but looking at stills of her character I didn’t find her nearly as attractive as Kes or B’Elanna. ETA: For the record, I still maintain that Major Kira was the hottest female regular in any Trek series. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Remember too, that was Beltran’s characterization of Picardo, and he didn’t like the show, didn’t like the writers, really wasn’t too fond of many of the other actors and didn’t like the science fiction genre in general. By contrast, Patrick Stewart is also on record (in the DVD extras for one of the X-Men movies) as not liking science fiction. He said (paraphrasing from memory), “And yet, my career is littered with science fiction roles. The key is that those projects all told great stories about interesting characters, and that’s the most important thing. The science fiction is simply the vehicle for those stories and characters.” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/79 "2011-06-07T03:19:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > :smack: Wow, I walked right into that door. ☹ > So he’s bitching that the line isn’t his. > I think we’re beginning to find the core reason that they never could fix Voyager. Bad writing and some bad attitude on the acting side too. > > I find it more and more remarkable that they managed to fix TNG enough that there were a lot of great shows. Lots of crap ones too. But, compared to Voyager at least TNG is usually watchable. I doubt DS9 could have happened unless TNG succeeded. No, I still don’t think you’re getting it. Beltran’s characterization is that, by caring about their craft, these people were being divas. Picardo was saying that the Doctor would not say a certain line, and asking the writers to fix the line. He’s maintaining the integrity of his character, even though the writers don’t give a crap. Beltran, on the other hand, decided to give up and not even try. He, unlike everyone else, decided that, if the writers weren’t going to try, then neither was he. Unfortunately, that’s not a very attractive attitude to have for future endeavors. He blames the typecasting, but I believe his reputation precedes him. At cons and interviews, you’ll notice that the actors who still have work say nice things about their coworkers. The ones that say bad things, don’t have work. It makes you wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/80 "2011-06-07T04:07:31Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > ETA: For the record, I still maintain that Major Kira was the hottest female regular in any Trek series. Agreed. Funny thing is that I never noticed this on DS9’s original run. I noticed Dax, of course, but not Kira. It’s only after I came back to the series as an adult that I noticed how very, very much more attractive Kira was. And the Intendant, of course. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380.md?page=5)