# What was the real problem with "Star Trek Voyager"? Acting or writing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 5, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380 "2011-06-05T07:44:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/81 "2011-06-07T04:09:49Z")
Quoth **Mister Rik** : > [@](#): > > ETA: For the record, I still maintain that Major Kira was the hottest female regular in any Trek series. She was pretty hot, but she also did a really good job of hiding it. Most of the time, I just couldn’t get past that bitchy facade. But there were a few times… I seem to remember one scene in particular, her with her uniform tunic off, splitting firewood, I think it was. I’d still rank Torres a little above her, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/82 "2011-06-07T04:14:09Z")
The actors were serviceable. The concept was brilliant. The writing was abysmal. Janeway was the WORST Trek captain, and that is not an insult to Mulgrew, who I think tried her best, its just that she was written to be a shrew one minute and den mom the next. As has been pointed out before, having the Maquis make up a a substantial portion of the crew was a built-in means of creating tension and interesting stories, but in practice there were like 5 minutes of actual tension before the Maquis became happy Federation worker drones. It’s like someone went and rubbed down every edge on the show to make it as soft as possible. I think the NextGen crew might have had more conflict, and they were damn near perfect. Voyager had some decent episodes, the magnificent “Counterpoint” among them. But overall it was a waste of a good premise. It’s a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/83 "2011-06-07T04:15:42Z")
Too much use of the holodeck to take us out of one fantasy and put us into another. If I wanted to see a story about Buck Rogers, I sure as hell wouldn’t have tuned in to Star Trek. Too many episodes that were little more than soap operas because somebody falls in love with somebody else and _sniff_ will this mean the end for our cast of heroes? Too many episodes that revolved around children. Having said all that, the good episodes are good enough to make me buy the entire boxed set of DVDs\* \*from a street vendor in Bangkok for $10.00 ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/84 "2011-06-07T04:21:07Z")
Forgot to add, when \*Voyager \*was on the air I was a young teenager and basically a life-long Trek fan (grew up on NextGen, fanatical about DS9) and even then I eye-rolled at _Voyager_’s episodes. Also, Seven of Nine was awright but as soon as she became a regular Tuvok’s role dropped to nearly nothing. Poor Tuvok. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/85 "2011-06-07T10:02:24Z")
> [@Mr Rik](#): > > ETA: For the record, I still maintain that Major Kira was the hottest female regular in any Trek series. That’s **Colonel** Kira to you! I really thought she looked her best in the last season with the longer hair and the Starfleet uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/86 "2011-06-07T10:08:21Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Also, Seven of Nine was awright but as soon as she became a regular Tuvok’s role dropped to nearly nothing. Poor Tuvok. I always wanted a scene where she gets tired of Janeway’s efforts to mold her into a stereotypical human and asks him if perhaps Vulcan would be more welcoming to an emotionally-reserved quasi-telepathic techno-enhanced individual. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/87 "2011-06-07T12:38:06Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Unfortunately, due to major issues in my personal life and living arrangements at the time, I had to stop watching Voyager after, I think, the second season. But I later heard about Seven of Nine being added to the show as fan service, and looked her up on the Internet to see what that was about. Now maybe Jeri Ryan is a case of “you have to see her in motion”, but looking at stills of her character I didn’t find her nearly as attractive as Kes or B’Elanna. > > ETA: For the record, I still maintain that Major Kira was the hottest female regular in any Trek series. She was certainly the most stacked, that’s for sure. Anyway, funny story on Voyager. I remember in the Second (?) Season they were showing previews before 7of9 showed up and they were all like “Oooh! And one of these crew members will go away and never be seen again! Who will it be?!?!”. And they flash-show all the main cast. Then they show 7of9. My thoughts: Well, they’re adding a hot blonde to the cast. I wonder who we’re going to be losing. Maybe the hot blonde? B’Elanna never did much for me, but I always thought Kes was much more attractive than 7of9. > [@BigT](#): > > He, unlike everyone else, decided that, if the writers weren’t going to try, then neither was he. Unfortunately, that’s not a very attractive attitude to have for future endeavors. He blames the typecasting, but I believe his reputation precedes him. At cons and interviews, you’ll notice that the actors who still have work say nice things about their coworkers. The ones that say bad things, don’t have work. It makes you wonder. I always thought Beltran could have made a decent living as a Bill Clinton impersonator. Assuming he could do the accent, anyway. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/88 "2011-06-07T13:57:07Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > …Voyager had some decent episodes, the magnificent “Counterpoint” among them. But overall it was a waste of a good premise. It’s a shame. Yes, I’d forgotten that one. I still can’t hear that Mahler piece without thinking of “Counterpoint”: [Counterpoint (episode) | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Counterpoint_(episode)) ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/89 "2011-06-07T15:08:28Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Irishman** :And that’s exactly the problem. Well, not _exactly_, but approaching it. Modern Renaissance enthusiasts will generally mix, match, and combine material from across several centuries of history. If Paris were fixated on the 1900s in general, and were often seen juxtaposing Flappers and the Beatles, and the like, then that would have been plausible. But focusing in on a specific decade, hundreds of years later? That doesn’t have the air of verisimilitude. I think it’s possible future renfair types will fixate on one era a lot more, simply because there will be so much more information available to them. It’ll be really easy for them to find out if their costume is appropriate and they’ll have loads of source info to geek off even just for one decade. > [@BigT](#): > > No, I still don’t think you’re getting it. Beltran’s characterization is that, by caring about their craft, these people were being divas. Picardo was saying that the Doctor would not say a certain line, and asking the writers to fix the line. He’s maintaining the integrity of his character, even though the writers don’t give a crap. Beltran, on the other hand, decided to give up and not even try. I read it as Picardo and Mulgrew both seeing lines being given to other characters and wanting them for themselves. This is not exactly unknown among actors. You’re being a bit overgenerous to Picardo there. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/90 "2011-06-07T20:47:09Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > You’re being a bit overgenerous to Picardo there. You’re assuming that Beltran pays more attention to the nuances of what his co-workers say than to his own job. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/91 "2011-06-07T22:52:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I always wanted a scene where she gets tired of Janeway’s efforts to mold her into a stereotypical human and asks him if perhaps Vulcan would be more welcoming to an emotionally-reserved quasi-telepathic techno-enhanced individual. “We _do_ believe that all planets have a sovereign claim to inalienable human rights…” “‘Inalien’…if only you could hear yourselves. _Human_ rights…the very name is racist. The federation is no more than a ‘Homo Sapiens Only’ club. Present company excepted, of course.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/92 "2011-06-07T22:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > What was the root problem with Star Trek Voyager? **Concept.** Star Trek is about _learning_, about _growing_ & a _sense of wonder about the Universe_. All Janeway & company were interested in was going home, & shooting up everything they met. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/93 "2011-06-07T23:04:55Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I think it’s possible future renfair types will fixate on one era a lot more, simply because there will be so much more information available to them. It’ll be really easy for them to find out if their costume is appropriate and they’ll have loads of source info to geek off even just for one decade. To some extent, that will make any one individual able to be more precise about their specific items. And there will be that level of detail oriented fans. But a look at the steampunk movement suggests that the vast majority will appreciate the spectrum of time associated with the concept rather than stay fixated on a specific decade, incident, or narrow time window. In order to appreciate your specific character/idea/specialty, you’ll hang out with the folks who are anywhere similar and appreciate their efforts for their specialty rather than poo-poo them for not being just like you. Or not. There will probably be a spectrum of attitudes. > [@](#): > > I read it as Picardo and Mulgrew both seeing lines being given to other characters and wanting them for themselves. This is not exactly unknown among actors. You’re being a bit overgenerous to Picardo there. I could read it that way, but it takes a twist on the phrasing. The more obvious interpretation to me is the taking an interest in the consistency of his character. Jeri Ryan is pretty damn hot. Especially in the catsuit. I think Jennifer Lien (Kes) was prettier, but you’re already so far over to the end of the scale that the difference is negligible compared to the scale. Roxanne Dawson (Torres) just wasn’t my type, with or without the head thing. But my hottest pick was Terry Farrell (Jadzia Dax). I joked that I wanted to play connect the dots with my tongue. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/94 "2011-06-07T23:26:52Z")
Re Jeri Ryan > [@Merijeek](#): > > She was certainly the most stacked, that’s for sure. -Joe She [wore her implants (saline not Borg) well](http://indexofwallpapers.com/wallpapers/jeri-ryan-wallpapers/jeri-ryan-wallpaper-6-5446.jpg), but I think [T’pols implants](http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001577367/43085946_TPol_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg) could give them a run for their money. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/95 "2011-06-07T23:54:49Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > There were only a handful of good VGR episodes IMHO. > > - the ship is orbiting a very-quickly-spinning planet and becomes a inspirational “star” to its civilization, which eventually catches up to the crew in its development, and sends astronauts to visit. > > Just about all the rest suck to one degree or another. Whoa, whoa. I hope Robert Forward got paid for that one. Or sued them. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/96 "2011-06-08T00:13:19Z")
The acting was OK by TV standards, even if the person cast as Captain didn’t have the same commanding voice and manner of other ST shows. The problem wasn’t really with the writing, either, but with the concept - the ST franchise had been beaten to death already, and there really weren’t many new, thought-provoking ideas that could be fit into that tight old box. With the demand to get the episode count up high enough to make yet another syndicatable package for Majel Barrett’s old age, about all that could be done was to make most of the show just more variations on the theme of running into some new alien species (humanoid, English-speaking even) with the lumps of latex on their foreheads arranged a bit differently, who wanted to kill/rob/enslave/eat the humans. A few hundred of those and we got the idea already. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/97 "2011-06-08T00:33:17Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > To some extent, that will make any one individual able to be more precise about their specific items. And there will be that level of detail oriented fans. But a look at the steampunk movement suggests that the vast majority will appreciate the spectrum of time associated with the concept rather than stay fixated on a specific decade, incident, or narrow time window. In order to appreciate your specific character/idea/specialty, you’ll hang out with the folks who are anywhere similar and appreciate their efforts for their specialty rather than poo-poo them for not being just like you. > > Or not. There will probably be a spectrum of attitudes. He was fixated on the forties to seventies, though, not just the sixties - this is not that dissimilar to someone now being obsessed with Elizabethan England. > [@](#): > > I could read it that way, but it takes a twist on the phrasing. The more obvious interpretation to me is the taking an interest in the consistency of his character. It’s not often you can be absolutely certain about an interpretation of what someone wrote, but I think it’s pretty unambiguous: > [@](#): > > I think the only one who reads the scripts any more is Kate. I’m sure she does (Janeway voice) “There’s not enough lines in here for me. What’s that Seven of Nine line doing there. That’s my line!” Picardo does, because he’s the same way. (Picardo voice) “That’s a funny line but its not mine.” ‘He’s the same way.’ > [@](#): > > Jeri Ryan is pretty damn hot. Especially in the catsuit. I think Jennifer Lien (Kes) was prettier, but you’re already so far over to the end of the scale that the difference is negligible compared to the scale. Roxanne Dawson (Torres) just wasn’t my type, with or without the head thing. > > But my hottest pick was Terry Farrell (Jadzia Dax). I joked that I wanted to play connect the dots with my tongue. Kes started out prettier and a more interesting character, but she kinda got a bit too ‘nice’ sometimes. Also, she shagged Neelix. Jadzia I liked so much that I tried to watch an episode with Ezri in it today, one about her colleagues coping with the new Dax, and I couldn’t. :o Claudia Christian, aka Ivanova in Babylon 5, would have been my favourite even if she hadn’t had a lesbian relationship. Watching old episodes, her make-up is horribly overdone, but she’s still hot. I follow a few actors on Twitter (when I remember to log in) and Jeri Ryan is one of the nicest people on there. Wil Wheaton is too, though I don’t suppose many nwould be surprised by that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/98 "2011-06-08T01:00:06Z")
I _was_ attracted to Jadzia until I saw the actress on _Wheel of Fortune_, where she was an absolute moron. After that, I couldn’t separate the character from the actress. And if we’re going to be bringing in _Babylon 5_, I can certainly see the appeal of Ivanova (for one, she got most of the best lines), but personally I prefer Delenn. What can I say, I like elves. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/99 "2011-06-08T01:18:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And if we’re going to be bringing in _Babylon 5_, I can certainly see the appeal of Ivanova (for one, she got most of the best lines), but personally I prefer Delenn. What can I say, I like elves. Lyta Alexander. “Oh, and you mentioned wondering what my pleasure threshold is. I just recently found out. .. I don’t have one. Have a very, very nice day, G’Kar.” Lyta to G’Kar, _Darkness Ascending_ _Voyager_ suffered from every single flaw the various Star Treks were prone to, in spades. There was just no way to make it good. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380/100 "2011-06-08T01:53:32Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > …just more variations on the theme of running into some new alien species (humanoid, English-speaking even) with the lumps of latex on their foreheads arranged a bit differently… This is the problem with every Star Trek spinoff after the original series, not just Voyager. The costume crew resorted to a number of nose bridge variations (Bajoran) and hilarious hairstyles (Kazon) thinking this would create some sort of alien look. For many they didn’t even try to make them look alien (Betazoid, Ocampa) and for others they just went for the obvious rubber Halloween mask (Ferengi). I’m so glad the Ferengi were only in one Voyager episode. The original series, even with its limited budget and 1960’s technology, seems to have done better in creating some truly alien life forms (Tholian, The Beta 12 entity, The Horta, The “companion”) The original series also did a good job of creating sufficiently menacing mechanical entities, too (The M-5 computer, Nomad, The Oracle, The Planet Killer). The worst “alien” of all was Q. He was just a reset button in humanoid form. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-real-problem-with-star-trek-voyager-acting-or-writing/584380.md?page=6)