# What was the scam Anjelica Huston was pulling at the start of The Grifters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069 "2012-08-29T20:30:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/1 "2012-08-29T20:30:20Z")
In the beginning of the film The Grifters, Anjelica Huston is seen at a race track picking up discarded tickets and performing some sort of scam with them, but I don’t really understand what she was doing. Can someone explain? For extra credit, how did the slot machine skim in the movie Casino work? Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/2 "2012-08-29T21:33:30Z")
She was supposed to be betting on the races for her boss. He would give her money, she would bet on the races, and hand over her boss’s winnings, along with all the losing tickets to prove that she had made the bets. If she could pick up discarded losing tickets from the ground, she could hand them to her boss and pretend that she had made that bet but it had lost, and pocket the money for herself. So if she could pick up a losing ticket for a $20 bet, she could pocket $20 and show her boss the ticket and tell him that she bet $20 for him but he lost. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/3 "2012-08-29T21:41:47Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > She was supposed to be betting on the races for her boss. He would give her money, she would bet on the races, and hand over her boss’s winnings, along with all the losing tickets to prove that she had made the bets. > > If she could pick up discarded losing tickets from the ground, she could hand them to her boss and pretend that she had made that bet but it had lost, and pocket the money for herself. So if she could pick up a losing ticket for a $20 bet, she could pocket $20 and show her boss the ticket and tell him that she bet $20 for him but he lost. I haven’t seen it, but I assume the rationale was that having to pay out the winning bet herself would be more than covered by keeping the losing stakes - which is fine as long as her boss isn’t too much more than averagely good at picking winners (essentially, she was playing the bookmaker)? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2012, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/4 "2012-08-29T22:36:25Z")
As I remember, she was placing bets for horse races at a track other than the one she was in, and the goal was to raise or lower the odds on those races. ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/5 "2012-08-30T01:19:54Z")
How do you raise the stakes by betting? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/6 "2012-08-30T02:37:53Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > How do you raise the stakes by betting? Odds in horse races are based on the proportions of bets on each horse. I don’t know how or if that relates to the movie. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/7 "2012-08-30T02:43:30Z")
Yes, it was her job to move the odds. She watched the board and bet just enough to get the odds where they needed to be. Then she would collect discarded tickets to show her boss that she had bet more, and pocketed the difference. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/8 "2012-08-30T03:30:22Z")
If a long shot came in a paid out, say, 10-15:1, her boss could get hosed, so it was worth his while to pay her to soften those odds. Remember when she was visiting her boy in the hospital and she missed a track day? They knew she wasn’t there because a long shot came in. Great movie, same author who gave us ‘The Killer Inside Me.’ ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/9 "2012-08-30T04:24:53Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Great movie… Indeed. There were outstanding performances. Maybe the best for Bening and Cusack, maybe Huston also. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/10 "2012-08-30T05:07:45Z")
[slight hijack (with spoiler)] I’ve never really seen it all the way thru, but did they ever confirm or deny: whether or not Anjelica Houston’s character was actually banging her son? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/11 "2012-08-30T05:24:10Z")
Not confirm, as such, but probably not. Although it’s been a long time since I’ve seen it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/12 "2012-08-30T12:46:21Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > [slight hijack (with spoiler)] > > I’ve never really seen it all the way thru, but did they ever confirm or deny: > > whether or not Anjelica Houston’s character was actually banging her son? Some implication there. But it was a little murky because as the son points out, she used to pass him off as her lttle brother. It’s not clear if this is the weird part about the relationship or there’s more to it. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/13 "2012-08-30T13:44:51Z")
That little tart Annette, I think of that movie everytime I make a grilled cheese andtomato sandwich. When she’s doing the landord for rent money… ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/14 "2012-08-30T14:05:20Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > If a long shot came in a paid out, say, 10-15:1, her boss could get hosed, so it was worth his while to pay her to soften those odds. Remember when she was visiting her boy in the hospital and she missed a track day? They knew she wasn’t there because a long shot came in. > > Great movie, same author who gave us ‘The Killer Inside Me.’ So Bobo Justus is the bookmaker? How does he come out ahead paying her to shorten the odds? I assume that the odds are set by the amount of money bet on a particular horse, not on the number of bets. Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/15 "2012-08-30T14:15:33Z")
> [@sweeteviljesus](#): > > So Bobo Justus is the bookmaker? How does he come out ahead paying her to shorten the odds? I assume that the odds are set by the amount of money bet on a particular horse, not on the number of bets. > > Thanks, > Rob I assume he knows when the fix is in on a race and he want’s to maximize his payoff. And of course the number of bets is changing the amount of money bet. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/16 "2012-08-30T14:33:47Z")
Yeah, I always wondered what the value of moving the odds was, considering it would have to be pretty expensive. I guess, like **outlierrn** says, it was a form of insurance – making a modest regular payment in order to hedge against the small but nontrivial possibility of catastrophic loss. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/17 "2012-08-30T14:34:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I assume he knows when the fix is in on a race and he want’s to maximize his payoff. And of course the number of bets is changing the amount of money bet. If the fix is in, he wants to lengthen the odds on horse that will win. How does he do that by placing more bets? The number of bets change the amount of money bet, but 1000 $2 bets shouldn’t lower the odds as much as 1 $3000 bet, should it? Thanks, Rob ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/18 "2012-08-30T17:46:23Z")
From the Wiki, bolding mine: > [@](#): > > Because she leaves late for La Jolla, she misses a race where the **winner was paying 70-1**. For this mistake, Bobo burns her hand with a cigar. That’s a hell of a hit for Bobo, I don’t know what he would have to spend to shorten those oods, but, apparently it’s worth it. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/19 "2012-08-30T18:13:36Z")
I don’t remember the skim in the movie but all it involves is stealing cash before the drop it actually counted. I think this was depicted in “Casino”. Of course, the people in the count room have to be looking the other way when this happens. I think it’d be pretty difficult these days with cameras everywhere. But, where there’s a will… ---
**Author:** ![sweeteviljesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@sweeteviljesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweeteviljesus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069/20 "2012-08-30T19:03:44Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > From the Wiki, bolding mine: > > That’s a hell of a hit for Bobo, I don’t know what he would have to spend to shorten those oods, but, apparently it’s worth it. Isn’t there a house edge on the odds? Rob [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-scam-anjelica-huston-was-pulling-at-the-start-of-the-grifters/633069.md?page=2)