# What was the smallest English coin by face value? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965 "2013-12-10T10:23:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/21 "2013-12-11T18:43:54Z")
I remember being in NZ, buying something, and discussing the change for some reason. The cashier looked at me like I was nuts when I asked if she had a dime. A what? It took me a while to realize I need to say “10-cent piece”. Good thing I didn’t say “or two nickels!” However, if I’d asked for a florin, she’d have happily supplied a 20-cent piece. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/22 "2013-12-11T19:07:12Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > When speaking about US money, the term “penny” refers solely to the physical coin that is worth one US cent (i.e. $0.01 USD) and that was nicknamed a “penny” due to its original similarity with the British penny of times gone by. Americans pluralize the word as “pennies” and use the plural to mean more than one of the physical penny coins. E.g. if you have a dime, you cannot just say that, “I have ten pennies”, because you don’t. You can exchange them for ten pennies, but right now you have ten _cents_ in non-pennies. The “dime”, on the other hand, is an actual official unit of accounting. U.S. ten cent coins don’t say “ten cents”, they actually say “one dime”. It comes from the French _disme_, meaning a tenth. (In this case, a tenth of a dollar.) This is distinct from the nickel, which reads “five cents”, and the 25-cent piece, which reads “quarter dollar”. (And the 50-cent piece, which reads “half dollar”, but nobody uses 50-cent pieces today. Except for a certain rapper.) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/23 "2013-12-11T20:00:51Z")
> [@Learjeff](#): > > I remember being in NZ, buying something, and discussing the change for some reason. The cashier looked at me like I was nuts when I asked if she had a dime. A what? It took me a while to realize I need to say “10-cent piece”. Good thing I didn’t say “or two nickels!” > > However, if I’d asked for a florin, she’d have happily supplied a 20-cent piece. I am not so sure. I don’t know about New Zealand, but I doubt if many young people in Britain know what a florin is any more. Even before decimalization we rarely used the word “florin”: it was mostly a “two-shilling piece” or a “two-bob bit”. Actually the coins themselves were not particularly common until, in the run up to decimalization, they started minting a lot of 10p pieces (marked as such), which were used as two-bob bits up until D day. I think the 10p pieces were in circulation for quite a time, even some years, before we officially decimalized. Before that, half-crowns (worth 2s 6d) were a good bit more common than florins. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/24 "2013-12-11T20:07:55Z")
I remember seeing quite a few two-shilling pieces though. IIRC, in the late 1960s I started up a savings stamp book preparatory to opening a Post Office savings account (later National Savings Bank) and the stamps in them cost 2s and bore the likeness of a two-shilling piece. Most kids couldn’t have told you what a florin was though, I agree, 10p and 5p coins were introduced in 1968, and I (barely) remember them; 50p followed in 1969. The former two were, as you know, exact copies of the two- and one-shilling coins for size and weight; and by the same token, the old shillings and florins stayed in circulation all through the 1980s until the new and smaller 5p and 10p were introduced in the 1990s. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/25 "2013-12-11T20:28:48Z")
Unfortunately, with the current system of 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, and 50p coins, there is no longer any combination of British coins that adds up to half a crown. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/26 "2013-12-11T20:38:07Z")
It’s sad, but there’s not much you can buy for 12.5p these days, so it’s not missed as much as the half-crown would have been in the 1960s. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/27 "2013-12-11T20:57:15Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > As for what a penny can buy, I think there are still sweets that can be bought for 1p each. Maybe an individual cola-bottle, but anything half-decent like a Highland Toffee is more like 15-20p :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/28 "2013-12-11T22:10:06Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Unfortunately, with the current system of 1p, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, and 50p coins, there is no longer any combination of British coins that adds up to half a crown. I thought that half a crown was 2 1/2 shillings or 30 pennies. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/29 "2013-12-11T22:42:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I thought that half a crown was 2 1/2 shillings or 30 pennies. Yes, but that is old pennies. (Incidentally, nobody would have ever said it was worth 30 pence, though it was. We would have said “two and six”.) It was worth 12½ new pence (although IIRC it was withdrawn well before full decimalization, presumably as part of the plot to get us more used to using florins). After decimalization there were ½p coins, though, and the old sixpences, worth 2½ new pence, remained in circulation for quite a while (though I don’t think any more were minted). They were important for slot machines. However, both the ½p and the sixpence are long gone now. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/30 "2013-12-13T17:44:07Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Yes, but that is old pennies. (Incidentally, nobody would have ever said it was worth 30 pence, though it was. We would have said “two and six”.) It was worth 12½ new pence (although IIRC it was withdrawn well before full decimalization, presumably as part of the plot to get us more used to using florins). You know what, I remember half-crowns and I remember decimalisation well, but I’d long since forgotten that the half-crown was out of circulation before decimalisation day - only just over a year before, though. And yes, before decimalisation there were 240d to a £1, after decimalisation 100p to a £1; the value of the pound was not affected by decimalisation but the new penny was not the same value as the old. That’s why (especially for **Exapno** ’s benefit) the _new penny_ was so called and why it used a different symbol from the old (and the coins were marked “new penny” and “new pence” until the 1980s or so). ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/31 "2013-12-13T17:56:09Z")
Half crowns: Van Morrison singing “Me and Billy was standin’ there with twelve and a half pee” just doesn’t cut it somehow. (I suppose at some point in the future when people have forgotten about crowns as a coin, we’ll have somebody asking why he and Billy were standing around with half a crown, as in royal headgear.) ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/32 "2013-12-13T18:01:48Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > … (And the 50-cent piece, which reads “half dollar”, but nobody uses 50-cent pieces today. Except for a certain rapper.) We call him “25 pence” over here. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/33 "2013-12-13T18:43:39Z")
The widow’s mite, supposedly worth 1/6th of a farthing, was mentioned in the King James Bible of 1611 as the smallest possible donation in church; but it doesn’t seem to have ever been in circulation in England. The Flemish _mijt_ seems to have been well known as a tiny coin, but only as the coin of a country with which England regularly traded. > **[List of British banknotes and coins | Pre-decimal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_banknotes_and_coins#Pre-decimal)** > > Prior to decimalisation in 1971, there were 12 pence (written as 12d) in a shilling (written as 1s or 1/-) and 20 shillings in a pound, written as £1 (occasionally "L" was used instead of the pound sign, £). There were therefore 240 pence in a pound. For example, 2 pounds 14 shillings and 5 pence could have been written as £2 14s 5d or £2/14/5. The origin of £/L, s, and d were the Latin terms Libra, meaning a pound weight (with the £ sign developing as an elaborate L), solidus (pl. solidi), 20 o... It was seemingly well-known enough to become proverbial, however. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/34 "2013-12-14T02:54:10Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > The widow’s mite, supposedly worth 1/6th of a farthing, was mentioned in the King James Bible of 1611 as the smallest possible donation in church… Are you basing this on the Biblical text itself, or was there a marginal note/footnote/etc. or appendix indicating this? I know some Bibles do have appendices, etc. that can cover specific issues related to the denomination that published that copy. If you’re basing this on the biblical text, I can’t see how it’s claiming that the Widow’s Mite was the absolute smallest amount of permissible money to be given, only that it was a small amount even for the time. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/35 "2013-12-14T03:00:05Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > … > > (I suppose at some point in the future when people have forgotten about crowns as a coin, we’ll have somebody asking why he and Billy were standing around with half a crown, as in royal headgear.) In [this](http://www.myths.com/pub/humor/simont/Other/Macbath.html) outrageous Pythonesque Shakespearean parody, the eponymous doomed antihero receives a COD telegram and is billed half a crown for it. When asked for payment, he responds, “Half a crown!!! I’m still wearing it, wait around till later”. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/36 "2013-12-14T03:06:56Z")
What was a groat? I seem to remember it being a very small lead coin. Off to wiki! ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/37 "2013-12-14T03:36:36Z")
Strong’s Concordance doesn’t give any “Widow’s Mite”. Luke 21:2 has a poor widow donating two mites and Luke 12:59 has hypocrites “[paying] till thou hast paid the very last mite.” I think it fair to say that metorphorically, the mite is the smallest unit of currency. Wow, I think we should all take better care of our widows … like … WOW … ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/38 "2013-12-14T04:59:59Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Huh? I’m confused. > > Start with the answer to the question as to what exactly was the decline in purchasing power for the British pound from 1856 to today? > > Then do the math for the fractional units. There’s this [calculator](http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html), offered by the Daily Mail. However, I know very little about what the Daily Mail represents in political or social terms. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/39 "2013-12-14T05:30:23Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > There’s this [calculator](http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1633409/Historic-inflation-calculator-value-money-changed-1900.html), offered by the Daily Mail. However, I know very little about what the Daily Mail represents in political or social terms. Lumpen-conservative middle-class crypto-racists. That does not mean there will be anything wrong with their inflation calculator though. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965/40 "2013-12-14T05:33:37Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Half crowns: > > Van Morrison singing “Me and Billy was standin’ there with twelve and a half pee” just doesn’t cut it somehow. > > (I suppose at some point in the future when people have forgotten about crowns as a coin, we’ll have somebody asking why he and Billy were standing around with half a crown, as in royal headgear.) Old names for different coins in the UK system, as described in pre-decimalization fiction and news items, can be a bit confusing. You had farthings, pence, groats, shillings, florins, crowns (or “dollars” colloquially) half-sovereigns, sovereigns, and guineas. There must have been more only I don’t know them. To pick a year at random–1935–according to the calculator I linked to, there’s been roughly sixty fold inflation since then. With that in mind, when coming across these denominations, I know that anything high enough to be minted in silver was real, usable money in a way that 5p definitely isn’t these days. (Just as younger Americans can’t imagine how it was possible to have dime stores that actually sold things for a dime.). I think one reason the names were useful was because each one represented a different price point with respect to things one might buy at that amount. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-smallest-english-coin-by-face-value/675965.md?page=3)