# What was the Sopranos before the Sopranos, ie paragon of tv? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880 "2014-03-05T00:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/1 "2014-03-05T00:23:17Z")
In discussions of True Detective, a show I’ve yet to watch, I see people wheeling out that it is better or as good as the usual suspects: The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad. I am curious as to what was THE show prior to The Sopranos airing. I am aware that television drama seems to have had a renaissance of sort in wake of The Sopranos airing but surely in the mid or early '90s or earlier there were go to show for complimentary comparisons. I am not asking if there were shows better than The Sopranos in years gone by just what shows where considered the pinnacle prior to it and the recent crop of critically and audience acclaimed shows. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/2 "2014-03-05T00:40:03Z")
The West Wing. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/3 "2014-03-05T00:46:43Z")
Sepinwal covers this pretty well in his [book](http://www.amazon.com/The-Revolution-Was-Televised-Slingers/dp/1476739676). How far do you want to go back? I’d say that Hill Street Blues was a game changer and the top of the pile for the early to mid 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/4 "2014-03-05T00:51:59Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > The West Wing. The Sopranos premiered in January '99, the West Wing in September of that year 😉 I’d go with _Oz_ (premiered in '97), the\* X-Files\* (93 I think ?) and \*Seinfeld \*(seemingly forever). ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/5 "2014-03-05T01:02:10Z")
I definitely remember _NYPD Blue_ being talked about as a game-changer. It had more nudity, more violence, more gritty realism…and it’s the first show that I remember having that nauseating “fly-around” camera thing. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/6 "2014-03-05T01:15:50Z")
**NYPD Blue** is a good bet and before that **Hill Street Blues** and before that and this was a huge one was **All in the Family**. I think an argument can be made the \*\*Sopranos \*\*was the biggest leap game changer since **All in the Family** as far as quality, awards and impact. \*\*Sopranos \*\*was the first series to drastically change the number of people subscribing to a premium channel. It won award after award and was one of the ultimate and maybe the last water cooler show. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/7 "2014-03-05T01:17:42Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I definitely remember _NYPD Blue_ being talked about as a game-changer. It had more nudity, more violence, more gritty realism…and it’s the first show that I remember having that nauseating “fly-around” camera thing. I never watched NYPD Blue, but I remember it being talked about a lot. Right around the same time as ER, which is probably in the same category (as the OP, not NYPD Blue). Twin Peaks would be another. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/8 "2014-03-05T01:21:26Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I never watched NYPD Blue, but I remember it being talked about a lot. Right around the same time as ER, which is probably in the same category (as the OP, not NYPD Blue). > > Twin Peaks would be another. Not **Twin Peaks** , it was basically a failure. Well noted and very interesting but it did not change anything. It really wasn’t as well written or acted as **Northern Exposure** ; a somewhat similar show from exactly the same time period. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/9 "2014-03-05T01:25:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The Sopranos premiered in January '99, the West Wing in September of that year 😉 Color me shocked. It didn’t hit my radar until well into the 00’s. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/10 "2014-03-05T01:51:44Z")
_The Simpsons_ was a major paradigm shift when it debuted in 1989, not only for prime-time animation, but for subversive family sitcoms in general. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/11 "2014-03-05T01:55:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Not **Twin Peaks** , it was basically a failure. Well noted and very interesting but it did not change anything. It really wasn’t as well written or acted as **Northern Exposure** ; a somewhat similar show from exactly the same time period. And those two shows were also filmed only about an hour apart from each other in Washington State. Twin Peaks in North Bend/Snoqualmie and Northern Exposure in Roslyn. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/12 "2014-03-05T01:59:13Z")
Yes, _All in the Family, Maude_ (for its unapologetic feminism), _Soap_ (gay themes) and _Hill Street Blues_ (gritty cop drama) were all very big for their day. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > Not **Twin Peaks** , it was basically a failure. Well noted and very interesting but it did not change anything. It really wasn’t as well written or acted as **Northern Exposure** ; a somewhat similar show from exactly the same time period. I emphatically disagree. _Twin Peaks_ was much more interesting and engaging to me, with an underlying air of menace and secretiveness that _Northern Exposure_ didn’t have at all (and didn’t try to, being basically a fish-out-of-water comedy). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/13 "2014-03-05T02:15:18Z")
_ **Dallas** _ pretty much opened the door for prime-time soap operas when it debuted in (holy crap!) 1978. _MAS_H\*\*\* was also quite groundbreaking (and talked about) when it came on in 1972, even though it got off to something of a shaky start. It’s one of the few shows I can remember people discussing away from their living rooms, and building their weekly schedules around. _ **Mission: Impossible** _, which debuted in 1966, was _very_ innovative and became an almost instant hit. I can remember my eighth-grade science teacher saying “That’s one show I _never_ miss!” From what I gather, _ **Sea Hunt** _ got a similar reaction in 1958 because it was so different from anything else that was on at the time. I also remember _ **The Prisoner** _ generated an almost immediate cult following when it was aired in the US in the summer of 1967. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/14 "2014-03-05T02:24:41Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I also remember _ **The Prisoner** _ generated an almost immediate cult following when it was aired in the US in the summer of 1967. Correction: It could not have been the summer of '67, since it didn’t debut in Great Britain until September of that year. A friend of my brother was a big fan, and I know he wasn’t around in 1968. That would place it in the summer of '69, when all three of us were in Minneapolis at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/15 "2014-03-05T03:13:18Z")
_Roseanne_ was a game changer too. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/16 "2014-03-05T03:40:13Z")
Not only did _ **Hill Street Blues** _ open up a whole new subgenre of cop show, its format was easily adapted to other milieus, _ **St Elsewhere** _ and _ **LA Law** _ being the most notable examples. Even before _ **HSB** _, basically the same format was experimented with on _ **Lou Grant** _. All four shows were from Mary Tyler Moore’s production company. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/17 "2014-03-05T03:47:33Z")
**All in the Family** and **Hill Street Blues** were its antecedents in the show-runner-as-auteur concept. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/18 "2014-03-05T03:49:24Z")
Yeah I’m with Hill Street Blues, but a big up to Northern Exposure. ---
**Author:** ![bramma23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@bramma23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bramma23)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/19 "2014-03-05T04:32:57Z")
X-Files as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/20 "2014-03-05T04:41:44Z")
I think **ER** fits in there somewhere. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880.md?page=2)