# What was the Sopranos before the Sopranos, ie paragon of tv? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 5, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880 "2014-03-05T00:23:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/21 "2014-03-05T11:22:02Z")
I wonder if the early 1960s legal drama “The Defenders” would be up there. It ran for 4 years, 132 episodes and did well in Emmys. It seems to be highly respected by TV Guide rankings, if that counts. It dealt with tropical issues in an era when tv was criticized as a vast wasteland. But you seldom see it in reruns and I don’t think it is available on dvd. > **[The Defenders (1961 TV series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Defenders_(1961_TV_series))** > > The Defenders is an American courtroom drama series that ran on CBS from 1961 to 1965. It was created by television writer Reginald Rose, and stars E. G. Marshall and Robert Reed as father-and-son defense attorneys. Original music for the series was scored by Frank Lewin and Leonard Rosenman. This series is not related to the 2010s CBS series of the same name. > Lawrence Preston (Marshall) and Kenneth Preston (Reed) are father-and-son defense attorneys who specialized in legally complex cases, wit... ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/22 "2014-03-05T12:02:07Z")
I remember **Murder One** was very big at the time, and talked about a lot. (mid 90s) ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/23 "2014-03-05T12:39:53Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Correction: It could not have been the summer of '67, since it didn’t debut in Great Britain until September of that year. > > A friend of my brother was a big fan, and I know he wasn’t around in 1968. That would place it in the summer of '69, when all three of us were in Minneapolis at the same time. According to IMDB and other sources, _The Prisoner_ first aired in the US on June 1, 1968. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/24 "2014-03-05T12:44:00Z")
From this side of the Atlantic: Doctor Who, The Sweeney, Coronation Street, and The Bill. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/25 "2014-03-05T13:23:33Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > According to IMDB and other sources, _The Prisoner_ first aired in the US on June 1, 1968. Odd, but that must have been the year. I don’t even remember being home that summer. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/26 "2014-03-05T13:26:47Z")
There’s a good argument for The Cosby Show both revitalizing the sitcom format, and opening the door for actors such as Will Smith. Was this the first show to have a comedian base a show around his stand-up material? (in turn setting the stage for Home Improvement and Seinfeld). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/27 "2014-03-05T13:50:19Z")
_ **The Untouchables** _ with Robert Stack was one of Desilu’s great hits and spawned imitators in 1959. Like _ **Sea Hunt** _ (an Ivan Tors production), it was considered very innovative at the time. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/28 "2014-03-05T14:02:02Z")
The Larry Sanders Show. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/29 "2014-03-05T16:44:47Z")
Twilight Zone. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/30 "2014-03-05T18:44:44Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Twilight Zone. Twilight Zone and Outer Limits were years ahead of their time in terms of the quality of their writing, but they didn’t change anything, largely because the guys who ran the networks still thought of SF as being about guys wearing leotards and capes with lightning bolts on their chests running around shooting death rays at each other. Kiddie fare. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/31 "2014-03-05T19:08:27Z")
In the 80s Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, the first few seasons of LA Law. In the 90s the first few seasons of NYPD Blue & ER, Twin Peaks, X-Files, and Homicide. A lot of those were shadows of themselves by the ends of their runs, and now some of them look dated - but at the beginnings of their runs, they pushed the edges of their formulas and did it really well. Great writing, production, and acting. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/32 "2014-03-05T19:21:00Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I am curious as to what was THE show prior to The Sopranos airing. I am aware that television drama seems to have had a renaissance of sort in wake of The Sopranos airing but surely in the mid or early '90s or earlier there were go to show for complimentary comparisons. I am not asking if there were shows better than The Sopranos in years gone by just what shows where considered the pinnacle prior to it and the recent crop of critically and audience acclaimed shows. I already mentioned The Larry Sanders Show, and even though that wasn’t a drama I really think this is the answer to your question. Many of the other shows mentioned were excellent, even praised as the Best Show On Television. But I make a distinction between that and the Greatest Show on Television. The distinction is possibly just in my own mind, but the difference to me is that the best show is the best of a genre while the greatest elevates the medium of television as a whole. The first examples I recall of ardent word of mouth “It’s the greatest thing on television” were the Larry Sanders Show. It’s also my belief that the greatness of that show single-handedly spawned HBO’s tagline “It’s not TV. It’s HBO.” (The show ran from 92-98, the tagline was adopted from 96 to 2009.) ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/33 "2014-03-05T19:30:31Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > The Larry Sanders Show. I agree. This one basically invented the “uncomfortable” comedy that would later define the styles of Ricky Gervais and Larry David’s sitcoms, as well as being meta long before shows like _Community_ and _Arrested Development_ (and practically all of the shows on Adult Swim) took it mainstream. ETA: It was also revolutionary in using celebrities to play more dickish versions of themselves, a common trope nowadays (especially in movies). ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/34 "2014-03-05T19:32:22Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > I remember **Murder One** was very big at the time, and talked about a lot. (mid 90s) It wasn’t. I was a Murder One junkie. Loved the show. But ABC put it head to head against ER when NBC’s Must See TV was at its height. It required that you see every or almost every episode in order - which was not as easy to do when people were relying on making sure their VCRs were programmed correctly. It got pulled around the schedule toward the end of the first season, and the ratings were very, very low. 24 (6 years later) did a much better job of single story serialization. That’s the one that the other highly serialized shows copied. On the comedy side: I Love Lucy, Mary Tyler Moore Show, M_A_S\*H, Cheers, Seinfeld ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/35 "2014-03-05T19:37:37Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > _MAS_H\*\*\* was also quite groundbreaking (and talked about) when it came on in 1972, even though it got off to something of a shaky start. It’s one of the few shows I can remember people discussing away from their living rooms, and building their weekly schedules around. This was the top of the heap when I was growing up. ---
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/36 "2014-03-05T19:40:53Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > I definitely remember _NYPD Blue_ being talked about as a game-changer. It had more nudity, more violence, more gritty realism…and it’s the first show that I remember having that nauseating “fly-around” camera thing. Homicide, Life on the street was a contemporary of NYPD Blue and just as realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Athabasca](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Athabasca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athabasca)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/37 "2014-03-05T19:45:23Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The Sopranos premiered in January '99, the West Wing in September of that year 😉 > > I’d go with _Oz_ (premiered in '97), the\* X-Files\* (93 I think ?) and \*Seinfeld \*(seemingly forever). Thirtysomething paved the way for Friends. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/38 "2014-03-05T19:47:20Z")
If you’re talking immediate predecessors, I think definitely NYPD Blue and Homicide: Life on the Street. Some shows like ER and NYPD Blue were at the top for a while, but their runs were way too long to consider every season as being some of the best on TV. The OP specifically mentioned dramas, so sitcoms probably don’t belong in the discussion. I doubt Oz was ever considered one of the top shows by the public, mainly because I doubt HBO had nearly as much market penetration back then. I know I watched it but I rarely heard people talk about it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/39 "2014-03-05T20:06:55Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > In discussions of True Detective, a show I’ve yet to watch, I see people wheeling out that it is better or as good as the usual suspects: The Sopranos, The Wire, Breaking Bad. Strangely, I don’t think much of any of those. Overhyped. But TV has been developing all along. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880/40 "2014-03-05T20:22:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Strangely, I don’t think much of any of those. Overhyped. Yeah. They’re no _Return of the Jedi_, that’s for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-the-sopranos-before-the-sopranos-ie-paragon-of-tv/682880.md?page=3)