# What was there before Braveheart? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841 "2017-05-17T14:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2017, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/21 "2017-05-18T07:33:58Z")
> [@Satellite\_Guy](#): > > I know it’s not in the same category, in that it wasn’t ‘epic’, or ‘historical’, but I like to think that **The Princess Bride** played a not inconsequential role in the love of what would eventually evolve into the epic historical. Hadn’t heard that one yet. But that’s more of a comedy, right? (I haven’t seen it.) ---
**Author:** ![Satellite\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Satellite\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satellite_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/22 "2017-05-22T04:01:17Z")
Re: **The Princess Bride** > [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](#): > > Hadn’t heard that one yet. But that’s more of a comedy, right? (I haven’t seen it.) I wouldn’t call it a comedy, as there are few jokes. I consider it a light-hearted adventure, with some wonderful swordplay. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/23 "2017-05-22T04:23:41Z")
My introduction to British history (other than WWI and II) came from watching epic movies: \*\*\*Beckett \*\*\*(1964) _ **The Lion in Winter** _ (1968) _ **A Man for All Seasons** _ (1966) _ **Anne of the Thousand Days** _ (1969) _ **Mary, Queen of Scots** _ (1971) \*\*\*Cromwell \*\*\*(1970) All seen a number of years after they came out. I feel I should add the BBC’s _ **The Six Wives of Henry VIII** _ and _ **Elizabeth R** _ to the list, since they both were outstanding documentary dramas. Glenda Jackson’s portrayal of Elizabeth I in particular was just superb! ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/24 "2017-05-22T04:44:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > My introduction to British history (other than WWI and II) came from watching epic movies: > > \*\*\*Beckett \*\*\*(1964) Only one “t” in _Becket_. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/25 "2017-05-22T04:45:23Z")
I’d speculate that the aftermath of the 60’s and Vietnam left a lot of people unable to get swept up in that kind of film for awhile, then no one was making them so no one else did, then the pendulum swept back. I think one of the reasons \*\*Star Wars \*\* punched so far above it’s weight was that it dressed all that epic warrior righteousness in such a new package. I don’t mean everybody, of course, but a sizable enough chunk to effect the market. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/26 "2017-05-22T07:45:23Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Only one “t” in _Becket_. Hey, it was the twelfth century. He could spell it any way he wanted to! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/27 "2017-05-22T09:43:48Z")
There’s [Flesh+Blood](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesh_and_Blood_(1985_film)), 1985. Otherwise, the 80s was largely fantasies - your _Willows_, _Dragonslayers_, _Beastmaters_, _Conans_ etc. for the epic combat stuff, and your more understated thinkpieces, like _Name of the Rose_ ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/28 "2017-05-22T13:10:13Z")
It’s already been mentioned, but _Rob Roy_, which also came out in 1995, is a better film than _Braveheart_ in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Tangent](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tangent/32/3098_2.png) [@Tangent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tangent)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/29 "2017-05-23T18:54:32Z")
> [@Satellite\_Guy](#): > > Re: **The Princess Bride** > > I wouldn’t call it a comedy, as there are few jokes. I consider it a light-hearted adventure, with some wonderful swordplay. _The Princess Bride_ is very much a comedy, in addition to being a romance and an adventure movie. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/30 "2017-05-23T19:58:28Z")
I’m surprised that neither of these has been mentioned yet but: **Glory** **Dances with Wolves** While DwW pretty quickly leaves the battlefield, it does start with a full battle and some notable scenery chewing. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/31 "2017-05-23T20:07:56Z")
How 'bout **Orson Welles’** stuff? The Shakespeare stuff, ya know? Watched _Rob Roy_ last night, buy the way. What a cast! But after seeing **Brian Cox** in _Super Troopers_, kinda hard to take him seriously. I kept picturing him eating a bar of soap out of frustration or saying, “Shenanigans”. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/32 "2017-05-23T20:23:56Z")
> [@rowrrbazzle](#): > > Only one “t” in _Becket_. Will no one rid me of this troublesome plural? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/33 "2017-05-23T20:35:15Z")
> [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](#): > > Hollywood made for example no Roman era epics for 33 years, between 1966 and 2000 (possible exception is The last temptation of Christ). Oh yeah! The one where the Roman good guys win but at the very end of the story, we find out the villain didn’t really die. Another cheap cliffhanger for a sequel that’s still stuck in pre-production hell. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/34 "2017-05-24T09:53:39Z")
Another “epic” movie (I like to think of it that way) I could watch over and over again is _ **The Man Who Would Be King** _: Sean Connery, Michael Caine, Christopher Plummer, and based on a work by Rudyard Kipling. They just don’t get any better than that! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/35 "2017-05-24T14:41:14Z")
Given the other movies mentioned, Ben Hur (1959) should probably also be included. It had a huge budget for the time, $15 million, but also a huge box office, $146 million, and won 11 Academy Awards. ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/36 "2017-05-24T17:05:53Z")
You could make a case for **Zulu** being a historical epic. Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/37 "2017-05-24T18:14:25Z")
Where are you setting your boundaries - huge (for the limitations of the time) scale? success at the box office? Here’s [one overview](http://www.filmsite.org/epicsfilms.html) of some possible candidates One not listed there, because it was forgotten or thought lost for years was [Abel Gance’s _Napoleon_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napol%C3%A9on_(1927_film)). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aca169/32.png) [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Piranha_Brothers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/38 "2017-05-26T13:57:39Z")
Gance’s Napoleon, was that ever completely lost or forgotten? Not sure; it’s been receiving critical acclaim as a masterpiece since 1980. But it’s hardly the kind of thing to convince a studio to pump millions in a new historical blockbuster. > [@Tangent](#): > > _The Princess Bride_ is very much a comedy, in addition to being a romance and an adventure movie. Some call Ghostbusters (any part) a comedy, I totally didn’t get that when I was a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/39 "2017-05-26T23:18:43Z")
I dunno. Spunkyliver? ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841/40 "2017-05-27T13:19:58Z")
> [@The\_Piranha\_Brothers](#): > > Gance’s Napoleon, was that ever completely lost or forgotten? Not sure; it’s been receiving critical acclaim as a masterpiece since 1980. It sort of depends on how you phrase it. When Kevin Brownlow first saw bits of it in 1954, Gance’s reputation was at a low ebb, though he’d always been able to continue making films. And, of course, the reputation of silent films in general was pretty low at the time. Copies of Gance’s Thirties butchered version seem to have been commonly preserved and Langlois at the Cinémathèque in Paris thought he had a definitive 4-hour print, but wasn’t letting anyone see it and then, when he did, it turned out to be a very inferior version. So the film was never completely lost or forgotten, but it was the case in 1954 that it was known only to specialists, that it had a low reputation amongst them and that anyone who had seen it had either seen it long before or had only seen a dodgy version. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-there-before-braveheart/786841.md?page=1)