# What was this, circa 18th century, flare/torch device? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467 "2016-06-04T04:05:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/1 "2016-06-04T04:05:08Z")
A historical light source question from me, this week, concerning a device featured in a favorite old movie of mine, 1999’s _Plunkett & Macleane,_ set in 1748. At one point, in a scene in a tunnel, a character uses what I can only describe as what looks like a magnesium flare, mounted in a metal holder, in lieu of a lantern. Pictured [here,](http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/ranchoth/plunk1_zpstzcycp3h.png) [here,](http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/ranchoth/plunk2_zpsse06yffx.png) and [here.](http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad350/ranchoth/plunk3_zpspumbi9tn.png) My question is: what _is_ that thing? I mean, assuming it was a real, period device—which is certainly iffy, as this _is_ the kind of movie that would do things to look gothy and cool—was there a special name for that kind of torch/flare/holder? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/2 "2016-06-04T05:07:11Z")
It burns white. It’s a prop out of time. TV and movies are full of them. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/3 "2016-06-04T05:21:41Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > It burns white. It’s a prop out of time. TV and movies are full of them. This. What they seem to have gone for is a cross between a torch (usually dry rushes or rags of some kind soaked in grease) and a heavier candle-torch. But nothing of that time frame would have made that kind of flame for an extended period of time. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/4 "2016-06-04T06:06:23Z")
A pyrotechnic flare, like a [blue light](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9C6_FfySiI&t=2m48s), might look sort of like that. It wouldn’t last very long, though. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/5 "2016-06-04T06:22:29Z")
Actually, [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_light_(pyrotechnic_signal)) describes them as used for “general illumination in the civilian sector”, which I guess implies a useful burn time for that purpose. The timeline is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/6 "2016-06-04T16:57:32Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > Actually, [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_light_(pyrotechnic_signal)) describes them as used for “general illumination in the civilian sector”, which I guess implies a useful burn time for that purpose. The timeline is appropriate. I would debate that last point slightly. 1810; sure. Maybe as early as the American Revolution. But to the very start of the French and Indian War? I would be curious to check the sources in Wiki’s cites before calling it. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/7 "2016-06-04T18:06:06Z")
In [William Congreve’s rational rockets](http://rsnr.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/63/1/35), Simon Werrett writes: > [@](#): > > An important precedent for Congreve rockets was the ‘Bengal Fire’ or ‘Blue Light’ made with sulphur and antimony by Indian troops and used to illuminate enemies at night. French and British troops dismissed these flares on first encountering them in India, but by the late 1750s ‘Bengal lights’ were advertised in Europe, first as festive pyrotechnics, then as military. If the composition was first used in India, but adopted by the late 1750s in Europe, then 1748 seems early but plausible to me. It’s not particularly high-tech: the basic ingredients are those of black powder, which had been known then for hundreds of years, and naturally-occurring sulfides of arsenic or antimony. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/8 "2016-06-04T19:19:39Z")
> [@TommySeven](#): > > In [William Congreve’s rational rockets](http://rsnr.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/63/1/35), Simon Werrett writes: > > If the composition was first used in India, but adopted by the late 1750s in Europe, then 1748 seems early but plausible to me. It’s not particularly high-tech: the basic ingredients are those of black powder, which had been known then for hundreds of years, and naturally-occurring sulfides of arsenic or antimony. I was going to mention the Congreve rockets, well known for their ‘red glare’. It was feasible for lamps like the ones in the pictures to be used, but they don’t seem very practical for indoor use like that, the smell must have been awful and the light blinding. I think oil lamps would have been more likely for illumination, in a glass enclosure and I think the adjustable wicks still used would have been available by then. ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-circa-18th-century-flare-torch-device/756467/9 "2016-06-06T01:24:22Z")
To be clear, the propellant for Congreve’s rockets was (as best I can tell) just black powder. That had been known then for centuries, but it’s not too suitable for general illumination, as **TriPolar** says. The “blue light” or “Bengal light” is a different composition, which burns slower and with a brighter and whiter light. That’s what I propose here, and Werrett’s article, while primarily concerned with Congreve’s rockets, also seems to imply that a “blue light” would have been available at least in India by ~1750.