# What was this plane I saw? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210 "2006-10-28T04:09:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/1 "2006-10-28T04:09:16Z")
Despite my great interest in cars and trucks, I know next to nothing about planes. What I do know, is that the other day I saw a plane you usually don’t see. It was clearly a jet, though it seemed like a small one. Maybe the size of a Lear jet or similar plane. But the plane’s nose was strange looking. It seemed to have two protrusions from the front, one on either side. I created a really pathetic, shitty mock-up, using a stock image of a plane which was definitely not the one I saw, to try to illustrate the way it looked. [Here it is.](http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/6983/2004563305065825082_rs.jpg) Those white lines coming out of the nose - those are the protrusions I am talking about. What could they have been? Weather tracking devices? Antennas? Laser guns? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/2 "2006-10-28T04:14:19Z")
Not a jet, but did it look [like this](http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/piaggio/piaggio1.html)? ---
**Author:** ![633squadron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/ee59a6/32.png) [@633squadron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/633squadron)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/3 "2006-10-28T04:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Despite my great interest in cars and trucks, I know next to nothing about planes. What I do know, is that the other day I saw a plane you usually don’t see. [/QUOTE] Hmmm. I can’t answer cuz I need more info. - Is it a type of plane you have seen before, just not with these protrusions? - Did you see it parked at a small civilian airport? A major airport? A military field? - How many engines did it seem to have? Where were they located? - Did it look somewhat like a Lear Jet, with wings below the fuselage and engines on either side of the tail? - Did the protrusions really look like that drawing? It seems to show two large tubes sticking forward from the nose of the plane. The Piaggio picture is of a jet with canard winglets; did the protrusions look like winglets? - In relative size, how big were the protrusions? Size of a straw? A rifle? A machine gun? A bazooka? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/4 "2006-10-28T04:23:50Z")
It looked quite a bit like the one that **Johnny L.A.** has linked to. It was directly above, so I got only a basic view of the bottom of it, but it did seem to have winglets, if that’s what those are called, coming from the sides of the nose. It didn’t seem as streamlined as that Piaggio. Maybe it was an older model. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/5 "2006-10-28T04:38:11Z")
I’ve been wracking my brain trying to think of a canard-configured business jet, but it’s been a long day and bizjets are not my forte. All I can think of at the moment is the Avanti. (Or the Beech Starship, but I don’t think any of those are flying.) ISTR a Lear or a Cessna that had ‘whiskers’ on the nose, but I’m not certain. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/6 "2006-10-28T04:42:57Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] …it did seem to have winglets, if that’s what those are called, coming from the sides of the nose… [/QUOTE] [Canards!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard) And a nice list of aircraft that have them. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/7 "2006-10-28T06:40:40Z")
Where did you see it? My first thought (before I looked at your drawing) was that you might live near Bert Rutan and have seen his next offering that is not yet in production. However, rather than a canard, your drawing and description of “projections” suggests technical equipment such as air sampling or electronic or magnetic sensors, so I am wondering whether you are near a NASA or NOAA facility and they have tricked out a [Falcon Jet](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/hu-25.htm) or something for research (particularly since the Coast Guard already uses it as the [HU-25 Guardian](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/hu-25-pics.htm), making a “loan” to NASA or NOAA within the realm of possibility. (For that matter, it might be an HU-25 with extra gear for tracking drug runners or have been loaned to a Homeland Security agency for similar use. If you are in Kansas, that is less likely.) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/8 "2006-10-28T10:21:05Z")
Well…it could have been any plane with Canards, then, not specifically the Avantio or Piaggio. Or it could have been some military plane with similar hardware. I am quite near Crane Surface Warfare center. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/9 "2006-10-28T10:21:43Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] IOr the Beech Starship, but I don’t think any of those are flying [/QUOTE] There is one - just one - still flying. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/10 "2006-10-28T13:16:28Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Or it could have been some military plane with similar hardware. I am quite near Crane Surface Warfare center. [/QUOTE] Given your proximity to [Crane](http://www.crane.navy.mil/defaulthome.asp), my WAG would be a U-25 or similar plane (_e.g._, [C-20 Gulfstream III](http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/c-20.htm)) outfitted as an electronics test bed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/11 "2006-10-28T13:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] There is one - just one - still flying. [/QUOTE] Do you know where? When I fly out of SNA I see what appears to be some sort of museum across the field. There’s a Starship parked there. There are also a couple of B-17s, one of which I saw flying last week. ---
**Author:** ![Subway\_Prophet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecb155/32.png) [@Subway\_Prophet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subway_Prophet)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/12 "2006-10-28T14:53:53Z")
Joke I saw in a book somewhere: Q: Why do they call them canards? A: Because you can 'ardly fly without them! Thank you, I’ll be here all day. All freaking day. Enjoy the lobster. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/13 "2006-10-28T17:31:58Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Do you know where? When I fly out of SNA I see what appears to be some sort of museum across the field. There’s a Starship parked there. There are also a couple of B-17s, one of which I saw flying last week. [/QUOTE] I don’t know, and theorectically anywhere. It’s in private hands. The owner used it as a chase plane while Rutan was working on SS1 but I don’t know where he is or what he’s doing now. The buy bought like an entire warehouse of sparebits for the Starship, just so he could keep his flying since Beech isn’t building or supporting it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/14 "2006-10-28T17:38:16Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] I don’t know, and theorectically anywhere. It’s in private hands. The owner used it as a chase plane while Rutan was working on SS1 but I don’t know where he is or what he’s doing now. [/QUOTE] It appears that that aircraft is [NC-51 (N514RS)](http://www.bobscherer.com/Pages/Starship.htm), which is the one based at SNA. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/15 "2006-10-28T18:25:19Z")
It is a shame they did not do better in the market place. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/16 "2006-10-28T18:56:30Z")
[QUOTE=Broomstick] I don’t know, and theorectically anywhere. It’s in private hands. The owner used it as a chase plane while Rutan was working on SS1 but I don’t know where he is or what he’s doing now. The buy bought like an entire warehouse of sparebits for the Starship, just so he could keep his flying since Beech isn’t building or supporting it anymore. [/QUOTE] I have an article about it somewhere around. Ratheon lost so much money designing, building, and supporting the Starship that after they decided to discontinue them, they had ceremonies destroying all of them they could get their hands on. They wanted to destroy every one in existence but there was one holdout and he refused to ever sell and see it destroyed and so it stands to this day. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/17 "2006-10-28T19:02:25Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] It appears that that aircraft is [NC-51 (N514RS)](http://www.bobscherer.com/Pages/Starship.htm), which is the one based at SNA. [/QUOTE] There´s something funny about the Starship´s canard, it swivels forward for low speed flying, you can see the axle and mechanism on the bottom, center picture in that link. That´s to make a small adjustment on the plane´s center of gravity reducing the need to add “up” elevator to slow down the plane. In that configuration the canard is swept forward about 20 or 15 degrees; I can´t recall exactly how much but it´s quite noticeable. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/18 "2006-10-28T19:31:39Z")
[QUOTE=Shagnasty] I have an article about it somewhere around. Ratheon lost so much money designing, building, and supporting the Starship that after they decided to discontinue them, they had ceremonies destroying all of them they could get their hands on. They wanted to destroy every one in existence but there was one holdout and he refused to ever sell and see it destroyed and so it stands to this day. [/QUOTE] That sounds vindictive. Did Tucker call in and destroy all of his autos when they didn’t sell well, or Ford Motors’ Edsels? Maybe there’s a different mindset in aviators. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/19 "2006-10-28T19:52:08Z")
[QUOTE=DesertDog] That sounds vindictive. Did Tucker call in and destroy all of his autos when they didn’t sell well, or Ford Motors’ Edsels? [/QUOTE] GM did it with the EV1, though those were leased, not sold. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210/20 "2006-10-28T20:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=DesertDog] That sounds vindictive. Did Tucker call in and destroy all of his autos when they didn’t sell well, or Ford Motors’ Edsels? Maybe there’s a different mindset in aviators. [/QUOTE] I never quite understood it myself but I think it had something to do with Ratheon having to support it in some way even if there was even one left. Supporting even one of such a plane in terms of parts, expertise etc is still exorbitantly expensive. It isn’t quite the seem with cars. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-was-this-plane-i-saw/378210.md?page=2)