# What Ways, Besides Grooves Pressed Into A Medium And Magnetic Tape, Exist (Even Theoretically) To Analogue-ly Record Sound? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 23, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484 "2023-05-23T22:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/1 "2023-05-23T22:35:09Z")
That’s the question in the OP: are there ways, theoretical though they may be (since there’s no need, what with digital recording and all that), to record sound in an analogue format besides what we have now (viz, grooves in a wax cylinder or vinyl disk, or a magnetic tape)? \*I ask because I’m kicking around a short story in my head about a non-Earth civilization and wondering how they could record sound. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/2 "2023-05-23T22:44:47Z")
Wire recorders [Wire recording - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_recording) are magnetic, but don’t involve tape. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/3 "2023-05-23T23:01:50Z")
Film uses variations in opacity to record sound. Basically, any method that can store varying quantities of _something_ could be used. You could use a wire that varied in thickness, for example. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/4 "2023-05-23T23:04:25Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Film uses variations in opacity to record sound. Like this: > **[Sound-on-film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound-on-film)** > > Sound-on-film is a class of sound film processes where the sound accompanying a picture is recorded on photographic film, usually, but not always, the same strip of film carrying the picture. Sound-on-film processes can either record an analog sound track or digital sound track, and may record the signal either optically or magnetically. Earlier technologies were sound-on-disc, meaning the film's soundtrack would be on a separate phonograph record. > Sound on film can be dated back to the early 1... The area on the right edge with two “squiggly” areas is the analogue stereo soundtrack of that particular format of 35mm projection film. This technique encodes analogue sounds by variations in the brightness of light passing through the soundtrack area and decoded by optoelectronic sensors. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/5 "2023-05-23T23:13:40Z")
I was going to post the analog soundtrack on film. But since that was taken, how about this: > **[Musical road](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_road)** > > A musical road is a road, or section of a road, which when driven over causes a tactile vibration and audible rumbling that can be felt through the wheels and body of the vehicle. This rumbling is heard within the car as well as the surrounding area, in the form of a musical tune. Musical roads are known to currently exist in Hungary, Japan, South Korea, the United States, China, Iran, Taiwan, Indonesia and the United Arab Emirates. In the past, they could be found in France, Denmark Each note... Grooves placed in the tarmac that are “decoded” by shaking the vehicle going over it. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/6 "2023-05-23T23:29:31Z")
The first method of recording sound in general is the [phonautograph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonautograph). Vibrations recorded on smoked glass. There were some half-hearted early attempts to convert them so they could be played back (using groove based methods) but they weren’t successfully played back until 2008! The oldest known audio recording comes from one of these. [Au Clair de la Lune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1860-Scott-Au-Clair-de-la-Lune-05-09.ogg). ---
**Author:** ![peccavi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peccavi/32/388_2.png) [@peccavi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peccavi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/7 "2023-05-23T23:30:29Z")
Holography. There is nothing inherently digital about holography and analog holographs are just about the highest resolution method of capturing analog information. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/8 "2023-05-23T23:35:03Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Grooves placed in the tarmac that are “decoded” by shaking the vehicle going over it. I think that gets disqualified for the same reason a player piano roll or a music box do. It’s not so much a recording as it is a replication. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/9 "2023-05-24T00:10:08Z")
At the risk of muddying the waters a bit around phonograph records, the original groove system recorded oscillations left and right versus the baseline spiral that encoded silence. When stereo was introduced, a couple of different systems were tried. But the one that won out encoded the sum of elft+ right as lateral oscillations about the baseline spiral for backwards compatibility. And encoded the difference L-R as variations in groove _width_ which caused the stylus to oscillate vertically as it entered narrower or wider areas of groove. So right there are two very different recording techniques just involving grooves. You could design an “anti-record” that instead had a raised ridge that a read head shaped something like a tiny car could ride along the crest of. YOu could design one where another “dimension” of sound was record by some torsional twisting of the surface and hence the reading device. Unrelated to the above you could use wire of varying thickness, width, cross section, or even electrical or magnetic conductivity. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/10 "2023-05-24T00:24:29Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Grooves placed in the tarmac that are “decoded” by shaking the vehicle going over it. > > I think that gets disqualified for the same reason a player piano roll or a music box do. It’s not so much a recording as it is a replication. No, a player piano or music box triggers a musical instrument to play a specific note. A car is not a musical instrument and the grooves in the tarmac are not triggering specific notes. The grooves are single impulses, whose spacings are converted to audio frequencies. It’s actually quite similar to a record player’s vibrating needle. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/11 "2023-05-24T01:18:34Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > At the risk of muddying the waters a bit around phonograph records, the original groove system recorded oscillations left and right versus the baseline spiral that encoded silence. When stereo was introduced, a couple of different systems were tried. But the one that won out encoded the sum of elft+ right as lateral oscillations about the baseline spiral for backwards compatibility. And encoded the difference L-R as variations in groove _width_ which caused the stylus to oscillate vertically as it entered narrower or wider areas of groove. As a bit of a historical note, when stereo vinyl records began to be mass-produced starting in the late 50s and through the 60s, there was a transition period when records were produced in both mono and stereo versions. This was the period when stereo record covers were distinguished from their mono counterparts by often garish logos announcing that they were Stereophonic, Living Stereo, Dynamic Stereo, Panoramic Stereo, Full Stereo, Stereorama, Stere-O-Phonic, and other such marketing claptrap. The coexistence of the two formats was because although stereo pressings were in theory backward compatible with mono cartridges (at least in the sense that you could play them and get sound) in most cases the mono cartridges of the day would excessively wear and damage the stereo records if indeed they could play them at all without skipping. The reason was that the stereo channel information was recorded at 45º angles on the two walls of the groove, which caused the stylus as you say to oscillate vertically as well as laterally, and most mono cartridges of the time didn’t have the vertical compliance to track those complicated grooves properly. Back in those days, in fact, your typical portable record player wouldn’t even have a magnetic cartridge, but rather one with a ceramic element, which required (by modern standards) a fearsome amount of tracking force, which mono cartridge would likely destroy a stereo record on the first play. I believe the size and geometry of the stereo stylus was also different. Eventually stereo records and the cartridges to play them were pretty much universal and mono records disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/12 "2023-05-24T02:17:44Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > Grooves placed in the tarmac that are “decoded” by shaking the vehicle going over it. > > I think that gets disqualified for the same reason a player piano roll or a music box do. It’s not so much a recording as it is a replication. I thought it got disqualified because “Besides Grooves Pressed Into A Medium.” ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/13 "2023-05-24T02:20:21Z")
I don’t think using concrete cutters count as “pressed”. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/14 "2023-05-24T02:46:58Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Film uses variations in opacity to record sound. > **[Movies made sound with a light bulb: Sound-on-film](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg--L9TKL0I%2F)** > > Just like the movies in a theater!Links 'n' stuff:The Engineer Guy did a fantastic explainer on the mechanism of film projectors - much deeper than I went as... ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/15 "2023-05-24T14:28:26Z")
Alec (Technology Connections) has also done a video about how LPs reproduce stereo. I haven’t watched it myself yet, but I wanted to post the link before someone else ninja’ed me. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3DdUvoc7tJ4/maxresdefault.jpg "How do vinyl records hold stereo sound?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DdUvoc7tJ4) ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/16 "2023-05-24T14:46:57Z")
This is not quite what the OP is asking for, but it’s an interesting related idea. There’s an old idea that it might be possible to play back sounds that were inadvertently recorded during the making of pottery or applying paint. The idea was that sound would subtly modify the position of the tool being used, whether a potter’s stylus or a paint brush, so that ambient sound was recorded. It doesn’t look like any significant sounds have been reproduced from such possible recordings. Wikipedia puts the topic under “Discredited thories” of the Archaeoacoustics page: > **[Archaeoacoustics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeoacoustics)** > > Archaeoacoustics is a sub-field of archaeology and acoustics which studies the relationship between people and sound throughout history. It is an interdisciplinary field with methodological contributions from acoustics, archaeology, and computer simulation, and is broadly related to topics within cultural anthropology such as experimental archaeology and ethnomusicology. Since many cultures have sonic components, applying acoustical methods to the study of archaeological sites and artifacts may ... ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/17 "2023-05-24T14:55:16Z")
How about punched tape like that used in teletype machines? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/18 "2023-05-24T14:56:16Z")
While this is a groove based method, RCA had a product called a Capacitance Electronic Disc, which rather than the variances in the groove being read physically, it was read electronically. The stylus stays fixed in the groove, and the capacitance between stylus and disc is what changed as the groove’s walls go in and out. They got much higher information density this way, totally analog as well. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/19 "2023-05-24T15:19:15Z")
Seems digital not analog ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484/20 "2023-05-24T15:20:29Z")
I note the subject includes “Even Theoretically”. The were several types of [analog delay line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_delay_line) memories back in the day. While things like mercury tubes were for early computers and digital, still earlier ones were analog. In digital terms maybe one or two thousand bits. But delay times of only microseconds. Plus there’s the degradation from reading, amplifying and writing the info over and over. But … _theoretically_ with modern tech those numbers could be ramped up somewhat. Maybe someone could “record” a 2-3 minute song with an extended version of one of those methods. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-ways-besides-grooves-pressed-into-a-medium-and-magnetic-tape-exist-even-theoretically-to-analogue-ly-record-sound/984484.md?page=2)