# What webcomics are most deserving of becoming actual comics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298 "2006-04-11T23:47:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/101 "2006-04-14T02:12:23Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Panel 1 has Francis from PvP and either Gabe or Tycho from Penny Arcade (I don’t know which is which). > > Panel 2 has the Devil from Sinfest. > > Panel 4 has Riff from Sluggy Freelance and someone I don’t know. > > I don’t know the kids in Panel 5. Panel 5 - Grag and Tony from [Real Life](http://www.reallifecomics.com/daily_old.php?strip_id=1629). ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/102 "2006-04-14T02:13:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What on Earth are you talking about? He’s been doing three comics a week for the last four years. That means he’s getting practical experience in cartooning every single day. How do you know that he can get better? How can you state that as an absolute fact? I’m pretty sure that if I studied drawing every day for four years, I’d still be a crappy artist, because I just don’t have the talent for it. Well…that’s just a difference of opinion about people’s ability to learn and develop skills vs relying on “raw talent”. If he took it seriously enough, he can learn to improve it, just like every other cartoonist has. Look at the first [PA](http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/1998/11/18). Look at the first [VG Cats](http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=0). Their authors made it a point to not just remind us that “practice makes permanent”. They did something, whatever it was, to perfect their craft. > [@](#): > > And for the third or fourth time, what specifically is wrong with his art? It’s just not professional looking. And there doesn’t seem to be any point in it looking that way - it doesn’t really complement any of the gags, and I can easily imagine them working better if presented in different way - so I can’t pretend that that’s just the “style”. > [@](#): > > And you never adressed my rebuttal to this: maybe he likes drawing the comic himself. He’s certainly not making any money off it, so I’m not sure what he’d have to offer a more talented artist to do his work for him. The idea that someone who truly respected the medium would give up because he can’t meet some arbitrary standard for competence flies in the face of everything I know about the love of art. The guy’s done over six hundred comics, and hasn’t gotten paid for a single one. Regardless of what you think of the comics themselves, how you can look at that and not realize that the guy has a deep and abiding love of the medium completly baffles me. He likes the attention from his fans, is all. Anyway, I’ll admit that giving up is overly drastic - I’d rather he does what everyone else did and improve his art. He _could_ make money off of it, like PA is, if he brought it up to a professional standard. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/103 "2006-04-14T02:13:49Z")
> [@Achren](#): > > Panel 5 - Grag and Tony from [Real Life](http://www.reallifecomics.com/daily_old.php?strip_id=1629). Grag? :smack: Greg ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/104 "2006-04-14T02:16:40Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > Care to post us a few links to YOUR better artwork? :dubious: No. I can’t draw, which is why I’d never say that not being able to draw means you don’t respect comics. However, I am working on a graphic novel, right now, with a talented artist. And it IS online, I just don’t feel like having it reviewed by the board, yet, especially in the thick of this thread 😛 . ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/105 "2006-04-14T03:49:47Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > Well…that’s just a difference of opinion about people’s ability to learn and develop skills vs relying on “raw talent”. I don’t think it is a matter of opinion: you made an absolute statement: that _anyone_ can draw at a professional level if they practice enough. This is, to me, an astonishing claim, and one that I’d like to see some evidence for. > [@](#): > > If he took it seriously enough, he can learn to improve it, just like every other cartoonist has. But he has improved. Look at the first strip again, and look at the latest. Tell me you don’t see improvement there. > [@](#): > > Their authors made it a point to not just remind us that “practice makes permanent”. Actually, my understanding is that artistic skills degrade fairly rapidly if not exercised regularly, but that’s besides the point. > [@](#): > > They did something, whatever it was, to perfect their craft. It’s just not professional looking. And there doesn’t seem to be any point in it looking that way - it doesn’t really complement any of the gags, and I can easily imagine them working better if presented in different way - so I can’t pretend that that’s just the “style”. Again, you have no evidence to think that Weir doesn’t try just as hard, and simply doesn’t have the talent. > [@](#): > > He likes the attention from his fans, is all. :rolleyes: Right, and if it were so easy for him to raise his work to a “professional standard,” he’d have even more fans, wouldn’t he? So why doesn’t he do that? > [@](#): > > Anyway, I’ll admit that giving up is overly drastic - I’d rather he does what everyone else did and improve his art. He _could_ make money off of it, like PA is, if he brought it up to a professional standard. Do you have any idea how hard it is to support yourself doing webcomics? Jesus Christ, man, most webcartoonists could make more money dumpster diving for aluminum cans than they do off their comics. And most of them would love nothing more than to quit their crappy day jobs and draw cartoons for a living. But they don’t. You know why? Because it’s fucking hard as hell to do it, that’s why! It takes years and years of practice - _way_ more than the four that _Casey and Andy_ has been posting - and even then, there’s absolutely no guarantee that you’ll succeed. Like most artistic careers, it’s a low-paying, unrewarding, hugely difficult career path, and the vast majority of people who attempt it, fail. Seriously: show your posts to that incredibly talented artist you’ve hooked up with for your webcomic, and ask him what he thinks. I’m virtually certain he’s going to rupture himself laughing at your assumptions about what being an artist entails. That said, and I mean this sincerely, I hope you decide to share your webcomic with the boards some day. As you may have picked up on, I’m very keen on webcomics in general, and I’m always interested to see something new. I promise not to savage it just because we’ve had disagreements on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/106 "2006-04-14T10:01:45Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think it is a matter of opinion: you made an absolute statement: that _anyone_ can draw at a professional level if they practice enough. This is, to me, an astonishing claim, and one that I’d like to see some evidence for. Rob Liefeld’s BEEN a pro for over 20 years, and still doesn’t draw at a professional level. Or even a good amateur level. (But he clearly loves comics like few others, so I have a hard time begrudging him the opportunity to work in it. Still doesn’t mean I like his work.) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/107 "2006-04-14T13:11:43Z")
Andy draws in another different style : [![](http://www.galactanet.com/kp.gif) ](http://www.galactanet.com/kp.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298/108 "2006-04-14T14:06:23Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > All he did was overlay a digital effect to give that 40’s comic a vintage look. Even allowing for that, the underlying drawing style looks different to me. (If you want to come back and assert that this is an illusion, I posit that the distinction between Weir actually drawing a different style and Weir creating a convincing illusion of having done so is equivalent to arguing about whether the _Iliad_ and the _Odyssey_ were written by Homer or some other guy with the same name). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-webcomics-are-most-deserving-of-becoming-actual-comics/352298.md?page=5)