# What went wrong with Matt Leinart? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 6, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840 "2010-09-06T21:50:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/21 "2010-09-07T23:57:54Z")
Roger Staubach was not only on the bench for a few years, he spent five years before THAT in the friggin’ Navy. Rich Gannon was mostly a backup until he was past 30. > [@Bearflag70](#): > > Romo sat on the bench for 4 years before taking the job from Bledsoe. Romo is about to win his first SB this season. Now that is funny. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/22 "2010-09-08T00:33:54Z")
I don’t know why you guys are belaboring this point: Leinert had a bad preseason, lost the confidence of Whisenhunt and his fellow offensive players due to a lack of leadership (and inconsistent play), _and he couldn’t beat out Derek Anderson_. I can’t stress that enough. Derek Anderson had exactly _one_ flukey good year with the Browns but he absolutely blows. If he’s the starter for the Cards the entire season, they will go 4-12. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/23 "2010-09-08T01:21:06Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Warner never sat for a single down. He was playing in the Arena league and then started the first NFL game with the Rams. Warner is the argument for playing no matter what the competition or league and not carrying a clipboard. Um, Warner sat all but a single quarter of 1998. Saw action in 1 game. He was 4 of 11 for 39 yards in garbage time. > [@Omniscient](#): > > The list of QBs who succeeded after riding the pine for an extended period after college is a short one, just about every other successful QB out there started within 2 years of being drafted. It’s certainly just one factor and it’s not insurmountable, but it retarded his progress. Sorry I just don’t buy this argument. The rate of successful QB’s _overall_ is exceptionally low. The number of spectacular busts is exceedingly high compared to the number of what could be considered a successful QB in the NFL. Just in the last 20 years I can rattle off names like Andre Ware, Jeff George, Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, David Klingler, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer, Jim Druckenmiller, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, Brady Quinn, JP Losman, and Jamarcus Russell, almost all of whom were the supposed “saviour” of their respective franchises, compared against Steve McNair, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers, and Donovan McNabb. That’s a 74% failure rate, and that’s just the 1st round. Extrapolate that out to the 400+ [QBs drafted since 1980](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/QB-1980-now.htm) and that percentage drops significantly. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/24 "2010-09-08T03:44:48Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > > [@gonzomax](#): > > > > Lienart was over rated. You hear it every year when announcers say a guy is a winner. Well playing for a loaded team like S. Cal makes it easy to be a winner. Let him do it at Northwestern and I will be impressed. Football powerhouse turn out winners. Winners don’t make powerhouses out of poor programs. You are guaranteed 10 wins in many programs. > > (I’ll remember this the next time you make the exact opposite argument about pitchers in a baseball thread…) > > But yes, I agree. Leinart benefited from having an amazing team around him that allowed him to play to his strengths and totally ignore his weaknesses. I never understood the Heisman hype - he was a good player, but neither the numbers or on-field playmaking were there to back it up. I remember watching Carson Palmer surgically dismantle defense after defense and you could instantly see he’d be a fantastic NFL QB. Leinart never showed that ability, he was always a system QB that did what his role called for him to do. > > > [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > > > Also forgot to mention Steve Young, who was a backup for a bit; both Detmer brothers as well; and Matt Hasselbeck. > > Don’t forget Matt Schaub, who was Michael Vick’s backup in Atlanta for 3 years. The difference in baseball from a last place team to a pennant contender is one game in 5. That is not much. Big programs in football win 80 percent or more of their regular season games. They live off mismatches. They get to schedule cupcakes . ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/25 "2010-09-08T04:13:57Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > > [@Omniscient](#): > > > > Warner never sat for a single down. He was playing in the Arena league and then started the first NFL game with the Rams. Warner is the argument for playing no matter what the competition or league and not carrying a clipboard. > > Um, Warner sat all but a single quarter of 1998. Saw action in 1 game. He was 4 of 11 for 39 yards in garbage time. He played in Amsterdam in 1998. I didn’t realize that after that season he was on the Rams roster in 1998 as well. > [@](#): > > > [@Omniscient](#): > > > > The list of QBs who succeeded after riding the pine for an extended period after college is a short one, just about every other successful QB out there started within 2 years of being drafted. It’s certainly just one factor and it’s not insurmountable, but it retarded his progress. > > Sorry I just don’t buy this argument. The rate of successful QB’s _overall_ is exceptionally low. The number of spectacular busts is exceedingly high compared to the number of what could be considered a successful QB in the NFL. Just in the last 20 years I can rattle off names like Andre Ware, Jeff George, Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, David Klingler, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Trent Dilfer, Jim Druckenmiller, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, Brady Quinn, JP Losman, and Jamarcus Russell, almost all of whom were the supposed “saviour” of their respective franchises, compared against Steve McNair, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer, Ben Roethlisberger, Phillip Rivers, and Donovan McNabb. That’s a 74% failure rate, and that’s just the 1st round. > > Extrapolate that out to the 400+ [QBs drafted since 1980](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/QB-1980-now.htm) and that percentage drops significantly. You don’t think sitting on your ass for 4 years and not getting used to week-to-week gameday prep or NFL game speed makes it tougher? It’s not impossible, but you don’t get better not doing something for an extended period of time. If Leinart had fallen into say Mark Sanchez’s situation things would have played out much differently. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/26 "2010-09-08T04:37:21Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You don’t think sitting on your ass for 4 years and not getting used to week-to-week gameday prep or NFL game speed makes it tougher? It’s not impossible, but you don’t get better not doing something for an extended period of time. That’s not entirely true. There can be great improvement in a player through film study as well as greater tutoring on mechanics than a particular player may have been exposed to previously. Some players prosper by sitting. It can be argued that many of those “bust” first round QB’s flamed out _because_ they didn’t sit and watch. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/27 "2010-09-08T05:15:14Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > > [@Omniscient](#): > > > > You don’t think sitting on your ass for 4 years and not getting used to week-to-week gameday prep or NFL game speed makes it tougher? It’s not impossible, but you don’t get better not doing something for an extended period of time. > > That’s not entirely true. There can be great improvement in a player through film study as well as greater tutoring on mechanics than a particular player may have been exposed to previously. Some players prosper by sitting. It can be argued that many of those “bust” first round QB’s flamed out _because_ they didn’t sit and watch. This implies that NFL QBs who start right out of college get less film study and coaching than the second stringers who sit. That is absurd. You honestly think Sam Bradford is gonna get less coaching and time in film sessions than Jimmy Claussen? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/28 "2010-09-08T05:26:00Z")
There is absolutely nothing that I said that implies that a backup gets less film time. It is only your interpretation that is absurd. The learning curve is so steep for the position that some players need the time to process the information, perhaps years before they are primed to be starting. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/29 "2010-09-08T15:18:02Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > > [@Omniscient](#): > > > > How many QBs can you think of who waited this long to get a starting gig did anything with it? > > Romo sat on the bench for 4 years before taking the job from Bledsoe. Romo is about to win his first SB this season. What, is he going to get traded to a contender? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/30 "2010-09-08T18:55:28Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > You don’t think sitting on your ass for 4 years and not getting used to week-to-week gameday prep or NFL game speed makes it tougher? It’s not impossible, but you don’t get better not doing something for an extended period of time. If Leinart had fallen into say Mark Sanchez’s situation things would have played out much differently. Where the hell are you getting this idea that the backups sit on their asses doing nothing?! They’re practicing with the 2nd or third team, they’re sitting in on the same film sessions and meetings as everyone else. Just because they’re not practicing with the 1st team doesn’t mean they’re “not getting used to week-to-week gameday prep”; in fact, that’s ALL they do all week, and that’s what they’re doing with the clipboard during games. Fact is, Leinart had every chance to be the full time starter and got beat by 1) the incumbent QB and probable future HOF-er, and 2) a washed up barely-was QB picked up from Cleveland of all places. He sure didn’t help himself by holding out, then posted pedestrian numbers his rookie year. Also, he wasn’t “sitting on [his] ass for 4 years,” he started 12 games as a rookie, had 112 attempts his 2nd, only 29 his 3rd, and 77 last year, appearing in _half_ of their games, and continuing to stink up the place (career 57% with 14 TDs and 20 INTs). It wasn’t “rust” that was Leinart’s problem, it’s just that he sucked. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/31 "2010-09-08T20:37:51Z")
Why is anyone surprised? Far more Heisman QB’s disappear quietly than have solid NFL careers. The game is different - faster, more complex - and doesn’t require the same skill sets. ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/32 "2010-09-08T22:54:28Z")
In regards to Warner: he only played in St. Louis because Trent Green had the Brady play happen to him. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/33 "2010-09-09T09:39:48Z")
Couple points: 1. College skill doesn’t always translate to the NFL. I won’t belabor the point, but the examples could be in the thousands. 2. Interesting point about Warner above, but I would argue that Warner made up for a lot of weaknesses on the o-line. Only a player of Warner’s caliber could succeed in AZ. Maybe if Lineart was in NE or Minnesota, he could have put up better numbers. 3. Maybe he was drafted too high. AZ does not have a stellar record in the draft. Maybe Lineart just wasn’t worth wherever he was drafted at. 4. What I heard was that Lineart didn’t put in the work necessary to be an NFL QB. He didn’t work hard, he wasn’t hungry, and he wasn’t focused on football. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/34 "2010-09-10T01:30:37Z")
last few Heisman Qbs winners Bradford Tebow Troy Smith Leinart Jason White Carson Palmer Weinke Wuerffel Charlie Ward Toretta Detmer Ware Testeverde Flute My theory is announcers overplay their talents giving them far too much credit for the success of big time winning programs. Three of the last few came from USC. ---
**Author:** ![unwashed\_brain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/a9adbd/32.png) [@unwashed\_brain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unwashed_brain)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/35 "2010-09-10T12:20:57Z")
Nick Lachey. He’s destroyed everyone that’s come close to him. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/36 "2010-09-10T16:05:43Z")
Those who draft in the NFL are not free from the hype that TV and the net produce over the QBs an the top teams. They get suckered into wasting their choices on a guy who plays at a top program . Your grandmother could pass for 50 percent for USC against many of the teams they played. TV loves to talk about how the QB is a winner. Most of them were far above their competition in high school. They won a lot . Then they get picked up by a powerful program and are assured to win. But the NFL is full of players that won a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/37 "2010-09-10T22:11:04Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > How many QBs can you think of who waited this long to get a starting gig did anything with it? Bart Starr may be the poster child for late-blooming quarterback stardom (he was second or third string for several years with the Packers). ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/38 "2010-09-11T04:19:45Z")
I heard Petros Papadakis on the radio the other morning (former USC player, and now sportscaster, covers USC football) Anyway he was asked about Leinart. In short his answer was that ML has the biggest sense of entitlement that PP had ever come across, and was in general an all around pretty much a schmuck. Sounds like his cutting was a self inflicted wound to me. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/39 "2010-09-11T08:52:50Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > > [@Omniscient](#): > > > > How many QBs can you think of who waited this long to get a starting gig did anything with it? > > Bart Starr may be the poster child for late-blooming quarterback stardom (he was second or third string for several years with the Packers). Quite a few, actually. Aaron Rodgers is the poster boy, but there was also “Captain Comeback” Steve DeBerg, Steve Young, Elvis Grbac, Mitch Gannon, etc. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840/40 "2010-09-11T13:37:55Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Quite a few, actually. Aaron Rodgers is the poster boy, but there was also “Captain Comeback” Steve DeBerg, Steve Young, Elvis Grbac, **Mitch** Gannon, etc. Mitch? Have you even read this thread, **Superhal**? Because if you’d had, you might’ve already seen a few of your mentions discussed. Also, Steve De Berg started 11 games in his rookie year, Elvis started 5 games in his second. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-went-wrong-with-matt-leinart/552840.md?page=3)