# what were the Beatles first of anybody to do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 26, 2006, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245 "2006-06-26T19:09:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/21 "2006-06-26T21:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Out-big Jesus. [/QUOTE] Naw, Elvis already did that—he just felt too guilty about it to admit it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/22 "2006-06-26T22:59:13Z")
[QUOTE=Nonsuch] The Beatles were the first rock act to rigidly separate their singles from their albums. Most albums — particularly rock albums — were seen by the record industry as devices for making consumers buy the same material twice: first as a single, then on an album. When the Beatles had a single due, they made a point of writing original material for both sides. (This rule was not strictly adhered to WRT the Beatles’ movie soundtracks, and it was abandoned in 1969 when Allen Klein released “Something” as a single from _Abbey Road_.) [/QUOTE] Not so – this was standard procedure for UK acts. You released singles, LPs, and EPs (four songs per disk), but the audience got really pissed off if a song was on two. British teens didn’t have the money that US teens did, so they didn’t buy a single if they could buy the album. As a comparison, Cliff Richard (The UK’s greatest rock act before the Beatles) had six hit singles in 1958-59: Travelling Light, Living Doll, Mean Streak, Livin’ Lovin’ Doll, High Class Baby, and Move It. He released two albums in that period, neither has any of these songs. In the US, singles promoted the album, and Capitol US did so in the US. The Beatles merely got Capitol to adapt standard practice in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/23 "2006-06-26T23:48:34Z")
Noted, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/24 "2006-06-27T00:57:39Z")
They were apparantly the first band to combine the forces of Paul McCartney and John Lennon, thus ensuring at the very least that one of my female friends would be hopelessly in the band’s thrall for most of her post-adolescent life. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Runs\_With\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@Runs\_With\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Runs_With_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/25 "2006-06-27T04:26:22Z")
“Eight Days a Week” is the first song to fade in. I would think George Martin would share some credit for many of their firsts. Brian Epstein, too. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/26 "2006-06-27T04:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=ululate] I’ve heard Zappa and the Mothers of Invention beat 'em to it, but that once again the Beatles were the first to really _ **explode** _ with one. [/QUOTE] I’d say _Freak Out!_ is undeniably a concept album, and it was released almost a year before _Sgt. Pepper_. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/27 "2006-06-27T04:41:03Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] They were apparantly the first band to combine the forces of Paul McCartney and John Lennon… [/QUOTE] Which one was the second? ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/28 "2006-06-27T05:05:24Z")
The probably were one of the first bands to use a studio like Abbey Road on their own terms. Artists used to get booked into studios–they had so much time, and that was it. As the Beatles’ career grew, they came and went on their own schedule, and that opened up the way for other artists. Of course, nowadays, people don’t even need a corporate-owned studio to get their music out. All you need is a PC and _pro tools_. Or _garage band_, even. ---
**Author:** ![DrMemory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DrMemory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrMemory)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/29 "2006-06-27T10:39:07Z")
How about being the first group to have a Saturday Morning cartoon?.. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/30 "2006-06-27T10:51:12Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] They were apparantly the first band to combine the forces of Paul McCartney and John Lennon, thus ensuring at the very least that one of my female friends would be hopelessly in the band’s thrall for most of her post-adolescent life. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] I think that the real key to their success was being orders of magnitude more cute & adorable than any other band. I am not sure how they achieved that, but the long hair was definitely part of it. Surely you’ve seen the footage of their arrival in America, with the female fans screaming in hysterical, orgiastic ecstasy? ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/31 "2006-06-27T20:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] They were apparantly the first band to combine the forces of Paul McCartney and John Lennon, thus ensuring at the very least that one of my female friends would be hopelessly in the band’s thrall for most of her post-adolescent life. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE] Actually, I believe that honor goes to The Quarrymen. I believe they’re the first popular band to start exploring deeper themes in their lyrics. Something has to be said for Revolution 9. It’s an interesting song, but the idea is done better by The Velvet Underground. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/32 "2006-06-27T20:49:15Z")
Apologies for the length and geekiness of this post. But it’s something I’ve wondered about for a long time. I’m a self-taught musician, and I’m asking for confirmation or correction on this purported Beatles innovation. According to _The Lives of John Lennon_ by Albert Goldman (who also wrote posthumous hatchet-job books on Elvis Presley and Lenny Bruce, so I know he’s not the best source), “Hard Day’s Night” was the first western pop song written in mixolydian mode. Background: Mixolydian mode differs from the major scale in that the 7th is flatted by one half-step: G major: G A B C D E F# G G mixolydian: G A B C D E **F** G This gives it a distinctive, slightly melancholy tone. If you’ve heard Celtic folk music, you’ve almost certainly heard mixolydian mode. It was used in modern classical music (e.g., parts of “Rhapsody in Blue” and works by Arnold Schoenberg) and in some early country music descended from Celtic folk music (e.g., “I Ain’t Gonna Work Tomorrow” by the Carter Family). Mixolydian mode was an integral part of the ‘hard rock’ sound: it fitted in really well with bluesy riffs, and you couldn’t turn on a radio in the 1970s without hearing it. And according to Goldman, HDN was the first pop song to use it. (In the line, “And I’ve been workin’ like a dog”, the second syllable of “workin’” is the distinctive, flatted 7th (F) note). If true, it would seem to me a huge innovation, sort of like merging two languages. Now, hear’s the thing I’m not sure of: it sounds to me like some songs earlier than HDN are in mixolydian mode. One I can think of off the top of my head is the Drifters’ “On Broadway”, written by Lieber and Stoller. But I don’t know enough about scales and modes to know definitively. So I’m asking from the trained musicians on board: is it true, as Goldman claimed, that HDN was the first pop song to use the non-common mixolydian mode? ---
**Author:** ![ianzin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ed655f/32.png) [@ianzin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ianzin)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/33 "2006-06-27T21:31:58Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I’d say _Freak Out!_ is undeniably a concept album, and it was released almost a year before _Sgt. Pepper_. [/QUOTE] Not even _close_ to being the first concept album. From the CD sleeve notes for the remastered version of ‘In the Wee Small Hours’ by Frank Sinatra: [QUOTE=SleeveNotes] At first, LPs were viewed as single-disc substitutes for the bulky, inconvenient album in which anywhere from three to six single recordings by a performer had been packaged. (The term ‘album’ to describe the LP was in fact a holdover from the days of these repackaged singles.) And like the albums they replaced, LPs generally were little more than randomly compiled collections of hits by performers of the day. / Sinatra, however, changed all this. Recognising the real potential of the LP … in conveying a consistent, uniform mood, Sinatra and his producers … began working towards the production of albums that were true, complete musical entities in themselves, **linked by shared or similar emotional and thematic consistencies**. / The singer’s first 10" Capitol albums, _Songs For Young Lovers_ and _Swing Easy_, each containing eight selections, were **unified by common musical-conceptual goals**. _In The Wee Small Hours_, on the other hand, carried this idea of focused emotional consistency much further … to convey a uniform mood of wistful melancholy that is almost elegiac in character [/QUOTE] Songs For Young Lovers: 1955 Swing Easy: 1955 In The Wee Small Hours: 1954 ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/34 "2006-06-27T21:32:33Z")
No, thousands and thousands of country, blues, bluegrass, rockabilly, and rock and roll tunes featured the Mixolydian mode. Usually they would take the form of a song that predominately uses the major scale, using flatted 7th and flatted 3rd as bluesy passing tones. Goldman is just making shit up. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/35 "2006-06-27T21:46:16Z")
Little Richard did EVERYTHING first. Just ask him. ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/36 "2006-06-27T21:50:18Z")
Also, the melody to “Hard Day’s Night” has passing tones from non-modal scales—e.g. there’s a flatted 5th in there—which means it’s not strictly speaking a modal tune at all. It’s _Mixolydianish_—with various atonal notes (relative to the mode) thrown in here and there—but so were thousands of other tunes before it. The overall effect of using the Mixolydian mode in pop tunes is to juxtapose a major scale sound—via the major 3rd—with a bluesy and thus somewhat minorish scale sound—via the flatted 7th—but without the tritone interval between the minor third and flatted 7th. Throwing the minor third in there lends a tune an even more bluesy/minor tonality. Adding the flatted fifth introduces another tritone and adds a diminished and even more bluesy tonality. You get the idea. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/37 "2007-06-02T00:36:46Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I’d say _Freak Out!_ is undeniably a concept album, and it was released almost a year before _Sgt. Pepper_. [/QUOTE] I seem to recall that Simon and Garfunkel’s \*Parsley, Sage Rosemary & Thyme \*was released before _Freak Out!_, and I’d say PSR&T was definitely a concept album. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/38 "2007-06-02T00:55:56Z")
[QUOTE=Nonsuch] They were the first rock and roll group to have no “leader” in the traditional sense. It wasn’t John Lennon And The Beatles, or Paul McCartney And The Beatles; all four were, in theory, equal. [/QUOTE] While it’s true that they didn’t have a leader, they weren’t the first…There were the Everly Brothers, the Drifters, the Shirelles, etc. None of them had a “leader” ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/39 "2007-06-02T01:03:50Z")
I think Revolution 9 could be seen as the first electronica or techno. It’s surely one of the first examples of sampling. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245/40 "2007-06-02T01:09:43Z")
[QUOTE=Nonsuch] That’s a good point—the Beatles probably were the first act to use original promotional videos to promote new singles. [/QUOTE] No, it was a common practice in Britain before they came along, and even in America, The Platters had participated in promotional films. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-the-beatles-first-of-anybody-to-do/362245.md?page=3)