# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/381 "2023-12-19T03:06:12Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > and yet totally chill with arguing for a “might makes right” philosophy He has a long history of that. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > How are you sporting an anti-fascist avatar (re: your mask) on the one hand And flinging shit on American leftists with the other? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/382 "2023-12-19T03:12:57Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > And flinging shit on American leftists with the other? I am an American leftist. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/383 "2023-12-19T03:14:20Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > “They’re bad and we’re good so it’s fine for us to wipe them out and take everything they have” has been a justification for war for all of human history Firstly, I never said Israel has the right to “take” Gaza. Secondly, are you arguing that Hamas is not evil? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/384 "2023-12-19T03:31:39Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > And flinging shit on American leftists with the other? > > I am an American leftist. Self-described, but hardly posting like one. Hence the call-out. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/385 "2023-12-19T03:33:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is permissible for the forces of good to use whatever means are necessary to defeat evil. Aren’t you famously the poster who condemned Harriett Tubman and MLK Jr for using unapproved means against fighting against slavery and segregation? Who would turn in run away slaves to face almost certain torture or death because they “broke the law”? I guess only you get to decide? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/386 "2023-12-19T03:38:33Z")
I thought that was Max\_S? (I mean, it definitely was, but was it _also_ Smapti?) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/387 "2023-12-19T03:48:46Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Aren’t you famously the poster who condemned Harriett Tubman and MLK Jr for using unapproved means against fighting against slavery and segregation? Who would turn in run away slaves to face almost certain torture or death because they “broke the law”? Yes, I was. That was almost ten years ago now and I am willing to admit that I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/388 "2023-12-19T03:59:09Z")
So, is this thread a place to rehash arguments from other threads? If so, it has immediately lost 99% of its interest for me. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/389 "2023-12-19T04:33:25Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > So, is this thread a place to rehash arguments from other threads? Yeah, it’s right there in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/390 "2023-12-19T04:36:02Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I thought that was Max\_S? LOL I was going to say the same thing. I think Max just made a general comment that he felt that escaped slaves needed to be brought to justice because they were breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/391 "2023-12-19T04:39:46Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I thought that was Max\_S? (I mean, it definitely was, but was it _also_ Smapti?) Woah, I never condemned Harriet Tubman or MLK Jr. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/392 "2023-12-19T08:33:31Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Woah, I never condemned Harriet Tubman or MLK Jr. I don’t think you ever did directly, no. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/393 "2023-12-19T09:28:36Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@Chingon](#): > > > > Aren’t you famously the poster who condemned Harriett Tubman and MLK Jr for using unapproved means against fighting against slavery and segregation? Who would turn in run away slaves to face almost certain torture or death because they “broke the law”? > > Yes, I was. That was almost ten years ago now and I am willing to admit that I was wrong. This is great to hear. I think you might also a bit wrong about Israel - not that Hamas is evil, or they should be destroyed, but in your eagerness to cheerlead Israel’s campaign, and apparent unwillingness to admit the IDF could be making mistakes. This is the same Israeli government that’s doing nothing while settlers in the West Bank brutalize their Palestinian neighbors with no consequence, and deliberately put policies into place that allowed Hamas to grow and thrive. They’ve earned criticism and skepticism, and at should all be watching them very carefully and not giving them so much benefit of the doubt for the incredible destruction they’ve wrought on Gazan civilians. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/394 "2023-12-19T12:15:18Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > directly Exactly. From what I remember of Max’s philosophy, it would say that both Tubman and King were immoral actors because they advocated against the rule of law. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/395 "2023-12-19T14:20:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is great to hear. I think you might also a bit wrong about Israel - not that Hamas is evil, or they should be destroyed, but in your eagerness to cheerlead Israel’s campaign, and apparent unwillingness to admit the IDF could be making mistakes. This is the same Israeli government that’s doing nothing while settlers in the West Bank brutalize their Palestinian neighbors with no consequence, and deliberately put policies into place that allowed Hamas to grow and thrive. Let’s not forget all these _other_ red flags that were cause for concern before they were effectively overshadowed by coverage of the present conflict and the intelligence failures that led to it: > **[Netanyahu Will Return With Corruption Charges Unresolved. Here’s Where the...](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/03/world/middleeast/netanyahu-corruption-charges-israel.html?unlocked_article_code=1.HE0.v26V.Xo8ldxN4WlOu&hpgrp=ar-abar&smid=url-share)** > > Benjamin Netanyahu is on track to once again lead Israel as prime minister — while facing a corruption trial. > **[Israeli lawmakers pass a key law to weaken the judiciary despite public outrage](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/24/1189720508/israel-politics-netanyahu-judiciary)** > > The vote in the Knesset capped a monthslong campaign to overhaul the judicial system by Israel's far-right government, a move critics say pushes the country toward authoritarianism. > **[Israel’s new right-wing government is even more extreme than protests would...](https://www.vox.com/world/2023/1/20/23561464/israel-new-right-wing-government-extreme-protests-netanyahu-biden-ben-gvir)** > > It’s also not a huge departure from previous ones. This should be a lesson to us all: when a corrupt, fascist, authoritarian comes in and insists he should be elected because he can “Make [the Nation] Great Again” and he’s the only person with the strength and the will to keep [the Nation] safe from “terrorists,” he’s full of shit. And will likely as not be bombing hospitals before his term is up. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/396 "2023-12-19T14:34:42Z")
There aren’t jerseys for Team Good and Team Evil. People aren’t Dungeons and Dragons extraplanar beings whose alignment is tied to their essence. People are good or evil in the moment based on their actions moment by moment. The members of Hamas who murdered babies are evil because they murdered babies. But Hamas held a vicelike grip on Gaza and ran the entire government, so (if I understand the government structure under Hamas) there were other members of Hamas who provided healthcare at hospitals, and they weren’t evil: they were people doing good deeds in an evil system. Saying “It is permissible for the forces of good to use whatever means are necessary to defeat evil” is gibberish, due to that word “whatever.” The forces of good don’t have team jerseys; they’re only good as long as they **don’t** do “whatever.” The moment they do something evil, they’re no longer the forces of good. I was pretty mild in the other thread, because it’s not the pit, but here I can say: you’re on team evil, and you’ll be there until you stop advocating evil acts. Team evil isn’t IDF, and team evil isn’t Hamas: team evil is the people who commit evil acts, and those who support them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/397 "2023-12-19T14:57:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Exactly. From what I remember of Max’s philosophy, it would say that both Tubman and King were immoral actors because they advocated against the rule of law. WTF. Sometimes, there are worse things than breaking the law. Slavery is a really good example. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/398 "2023-12-19T15:27:45Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Saying “It is permissible for the forces of good to use whatever means are necessary to defeat evil” is gibberish, due to that word “whatever.” The forces of good don’t have team jerseys; they’re only good as long as they **don’t** do “whatever.” The moment they do something evil, they’re no longer the forces of good. I wouldn’t have thought this had to be said, but since it does, you said it well. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/399 "2023-12-19T15:35:01Z")
As we can see looking around the USA on many topics, one hell of a lot of people totally buy into the team t-shirt model of interpersonal interactions, politics, and international relations. Under stress, humans are herd animals and many folks just run for the center of what they perceive as their protective herd with no thought to any other considerations. “Me scared” is exactly equivalent to “Them evil”. In quantity, we are not a deeply thoughtful species. A fault we may not collectively survive. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/400 "2023-12-19T15:35:21Z")
It is also always possible for _both_ sides to be bad guys (see also: Stalin vs Hitler). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=21)