# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/421 "2023-12-26T20:19:46Z")
Never mind ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/422 "2023-12-26T20:20:28Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > what can a property owner do to evict trespassers, when the police can’t If the police can’t evict trespassers then it’s quite likely they are not trespassing. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/423 "2023-12-26T20:23:11Z")
Right or wrong, the result is the well-documented wave of petty offenses that has made Minneapolis the anti-example of the “broken windows” theory made famous by Giuliani in New York City. ETA: and less petty, like street dealing, carjacking, increased levels of assault, gang activity, etc. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If the police can’t evict trespassers then it’s quite likely they are not trespassing. More like “have higher priorities”, “probably futile”, “not worth the risk”, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/424 "2023-12-26T20:46:23Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Maybe the actual reason they’re having trouble hiring is because not a lot of people are interested in associating with a gang of violent racists, and the ones that are interested in that, are getting turned off by the idea that they might face actual consequences when they brutalize a civilian. Bingo. I can’t blame someone from not wanting to be associated with that group. There are vacancies in police departments everywhere for a variety of reasons, and it doesn’t have to be a mystery why someone would choose to apply elsewhere. Seattle is having a major problem keeping enough officers in the force and that’s also resulting in more petty crimes. And it’s certainly not because they’re tossing cops in prison over routine matters. > **[Seattle police staffing hits lowest level since 1991 despite recruitment...](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-police-department-staffing-level-lowest-since-1991-recruiting-incentive-investment-spd-king-county-budget-mayor-bruce-harrell-alex-pederson-applicants-law-enforcement-understaffed-fbi-sara-nelson)** > > Despite major investments from the city to recruit and retain officers, the SPD has dropped to staffing levels not seen since the early '90s. It’s definitely not just Minneapolis with this problem. > With current staffing, Seattle has 1.3 officers per 1,000 residents. > > Denver has 1.9 officers per 1,000 residents, Phoenix has 1.6 officers per 1,000 residents, and San Francisco has 2.2 officers per 1,000 residents. > > The FBI estimates the average officer-to-resident ratio for large cities is 2.6 per 1,000 residents. As a matter of fact, Seattle’s policing levels are **worse** than Minneapolis. (As is Portland’s, I guess.) > **[Minneapolis Experiencing Critical Shortage of Police](https://www.policemag.com/news/news/15634654/minneapolis-experiencing-critical-shortage-of-police)** > > Over the past three years, MPD experienced the most significant exodus of uniformed personnel in its history and, last month, dipped to the lowest level in at least four decades. > Only Portland had a [lower officer-to-resident ratio](https://www.oregonlive.com/data/2021/11/why-portland-has-less-cops-now-than-any-point-in-past-30-years.html) by the end of 2022 with 1.3 officers per 1,000 residents, compared to 1.4 in Minneapolis. That’s significantly lower than the national average of 2.4. Now, that article is citing statistics from the end of 2022, and the article I cited from KOMO was citing statistics from 2023, so that might be a bit of comparing apples and oranges, but still, I am guessing it hasn’t changed dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/425 "2023-12-26T23:50:55Z")
Sad that things in Minneapolis have sunk so far that the police can’t even evict trespassers when they used to have sufficient resources to [assault the people who actually live on those properties](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/minneapolis-police-national-guard-paintball-shooting-porch-a9541016.html). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/426 "2023-12-27T00:50:27Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > …no one wants to work as a police officer when any traffic stop can result in prison time for the police involved. Leaving just a bit out of the George Floyd story, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/427 "2023-12-27T00:53:34Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Leaving just a bit out of the George Floyd story, aren’t you? What are you talking about? Cops were called about a counterfeit $20 bill, some stuff happened, and then those defenders of the peace got unjustly imprisoned for doing their jobs. What else is there worth mentioning?! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/428 "2023-12-27T01:05:49Z")
It stands to reason if they are _trespassing_ then they are trespassers.😊 Some people don’t understand what a trespasser really is. That’s the problem.IMO ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/429 "2023-12-27T01:46:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Cops were called about a counterfeit $20 bill, some stuff happened, and then those defenders of the peace got unjustly imprisoned for doing their jobs. I know, right? And it’s not like one of those officers was _already guilty of a felony way worse than (allegedly) trying to pass a counterfeit 20_, right? :cough: > **[Derek Chauvin, convicted of killing George Floyd, pleads guilty to tax evasion](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/derek-chauvin-ex-officer-convicted-killing-george-floyd-pleads-guilty-rcna72173)** > > The onetime Minneapolis police officer is already behind bars for Floyd's death, a murder that sparked a summer of civil rights protests across America. But send a man like that to prison for murder, just for gleefully kneeling on a man’s throat until he asphyxiated to death, and it’s the end of (“western”) civilization as we know it, right? Anyway, I don’t know why we’re in this thread. This thread is for otherwise good posters who _aren’t_ trolls, and yet here we’re talking about **Lumpy**? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/430 "2023-12-27T02:43:37Z")
Oh wait. I thought this thread was about “what I was thinking”? I didn’t know there were extra rules. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/431 "2023-12-27T02:54:34Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > It is permissible for the forces of good to use whatever means are necessary to defeat evil. It is precisely that attitude which so often turns the forces of good into forces of evil. I really hope that’s not what’s happening to the IDF. But the more of them who start thinking that way, the bigger the risk is. – ETA: sorry to have effectively come back to this; started reading the thread from where I’d left off and replied without realizing how far it had moved on beyond that point. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/432 "2023-12-27T02:58:43Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Oh wait. I thought this thread was about “what I was thinking”? > > I didn’t know there were extra rules. > 🤔 I love you beck, never change. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/433 "2023-12-27T03:08:02Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > ETA: sorry to have effectively come back to this; started reading the thread from where I’d left off and replied without realizing how far it had moved on beyond that point. LOL, your post confused me because I’d forgotten the post you’d quoted since it was so long ago. …But your point is still well-taken. Evil to defeat evil is still evil. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/434 "2023-12-27T03:19:39Z")
Doing a wrong thing to defeat evil is sometimes necessary. The risk is in starting to think that because it was necessary, that made it right. Because if it’s thought of as a right thing, then it may be done when it isn’t necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/435 "2023-12-27T03:39:44Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Doing a wrong thing to defeat evil is sometimes necessary. Sure, I just don’t subscribe to the idea that **anything** you do to defeat evil is fine. But you don’t always have the luxury to be perfect in that effort, agreed. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/436 "2023-12-27T04:37:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > > [@Lumpy](#): > > > > …no one wants to work as a police officer when any traffic stop can result in prison time for the police involved > > Leaving just a bit out of the George Floyd story, aren’t you? Right or wrong the perception is there that a stop or arrest that goes bad may, indeed can be highly likely, to result in trial by public opinion and that the officer in question will be thrown to the wolves to appease the mobs. Again, it doesn’t matter if this is true or not; the fact on the ground is that the city cannot find enough people willing to become Minneapolis police officers. Perhaps you can suggest where a cadre of shining paladins are to be found to fill in the shortage. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/437 "2023-12-27T06:12:27Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Right or wrong the perception is there that a stop or arrest that goes bad may, indeed can be highly likely, to result in trial by public opinion and that the officer in question will be thrown to the wolves to appease the mobs. Again, it doesn’t matter if this is true or not; the fact on the ground is that the city cannot find enough people willing to become Minneapolis police officers. Minneapolis isn’t the problem. The kind of people who want to be cops are. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/438 "2023-12-27T09:46:16Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Right or wrong the perception is there that a stop or arrest that goes bad may, indeed can be highly likely, to result in trial by public opinion and that the officer in question will be thrown to the wolves to appease the mobs. By “goes bad” you’re glossing over “the police murder the person they stopped”, and that is sick. And Chauvin was tried by a jury in a courtroom. You ain’t right. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/439 "2023-12-27T10:09:09Z")
How are we supposed to feel safe if the people we employ to protect us aren’t allowed to indiscriminately murder people in the streets with impunity? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_McQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@Steve\_McQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_McQwark)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2023, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/440 "2023-12-27T13:11:37Z")
But they’re not allowed to indiscriminately murder - they’re only allowed to murder those people. And if they do happen to murder a white person, then obviously that person was a WISCO(\*). (\*) White in skin color only [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=23)