# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 247
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5223 "2025-06-22T14:55:35Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > In the quoted passage, I believe natureboy is decrying the very common tendency of conflating Israel with Jewishness, so that if one attacks Israeli policy and/or actions of the government, one is accused of being anti-Semitic. That’s another excluded middle right there - there are plenty of people out there who hate Israelis (the people, not the government), while claiming that they don’t hate Jews as a whole, as if bigotry against a subgroup is somehow more legitimate. “I’m not an antisemite, I just think all Zionist should die in fire” - well, cool, dude. Fuck you too. Personally, it makes no difference to me if someone hates me because I’m Jewish _or_ because I’m Israeli. I’m both, and I always will be. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5224 "2025-06-22T15:01:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Personally, it makes no difference to me if someone hates me because I’m Jewish _or_ because I’m Israeli. I’m both, and I always will be. If someone hates you for being Israeli, does that automatically mean they hate you for being Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5225 "2025-06-22T15:01:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’m saying that “I know we can’t criticize _God’s Chosen People_” is a Groyper meme. I have no knowledge of that. I can imagine someone who is exasperated by some defenses of Israel’s actions saying or writing that phrase without being aware of its use by despicable people. By itself, it’s not proof of anti-Semitism. Maybe in combination with other things. Again, I am not arguing that natureboy is not an anti-Semite, I am arguing that the paragraph quoted from him is not. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Also, i am a Jew, and i don’t support Israel. And that post certainly made me uncomfortable in a “this person hates me for being a Jew” way. Was that just that quoted paragraph, or was it that plus other things that poster has written? If the latter, I won’t argue. If the former, it would help your argument if you could articulate why you think you felt uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5226 "2025-06-22T15:02:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If someone hates you for being Israeli, does that automatically mean they hate you for being Jewish? Who cares? Hating people for their nationality is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5227 "2025-06-22T15:03:58Z")
I didn’t ask if hating any nationality was right or wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5228 "2025-06-22T15:07:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hating people for their nationality is wrong. I agree. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > If someone hates you for being Israeli, does that automatically mean they hate you for being Jewish? You didn’t ask this of me, but I would say “of course not, but so what?” Because hating someone for their nationality is just as wrong as hating someone for their ethnicity. Yes, I am referring to being Jewish as an ethnicity. I don’t know if that offends anyone. It is my understanding of the world that, to someone who hates Jews, it doesn’t matter if a Jewish person is observant of their religion or not. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5229 "2025-06-22T15:08:12Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > Also, i am a Jew, and i don’t support Israel. And that post certainly made me uncomfortable in a “this person hates me for being a Jew” way. > > Was that just that quoted paragraph, or was it that plus other things that poster has written? If the latter, I won’t argue. If the former, it would help your argument if you could articulate why you think you felt uncomfortable. It was just that quote. I’m not very familiar with poster, and i found it shocking and uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5230 "2025-06-22T15:11:13Z")
The first sentence says he wants to attack Israel. All the sentences that follow attack Jews. But no, there’s no clear anti-Semitism there at all. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5231 "2025-06-22T15:11:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If someone hates you for being Israeli, does that automatically mean they hate you for being Jewish How do they feel about Christian and Muslim Israelis? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5232 "2025-06-22T15:12:06Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I have no knowledge of that. Well, now you do. If you didn’t know about BLM or the backlash to it, you might not realize that “All lives matter” is a problematic statement, either; you’d think it’s obviously true that all lives do matter. Context is key. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5233 "2025-06-22T15:18:05Z")
I feel that playing the “Ask another question to avoid answering the original question” game is a waste of time. I am not questioning whether hating Israelis and hating Jews are both bad. I am asking if hating one automatically means hating the other. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5234 "2025-06-22T15:18:34Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > it would help your argument Also, I’m not making an argument. I am stating a fact. “That post made me uncomfortable”, and “i interpret the source of that that discomfort to be antisemitism”. If you don’t see it, that’s fine. I have no beef with you. I don’t think you are antisemitic. And hey, maybe I’m wrong and the poster meant something else entirely. But the post sure as hell made me uncomfortable because I’m a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5235 "2025-06-22T15:20:01Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Because hating someone for their nationality is just as wrong as hating someone for their ethnicity. Not saying that both are not equally wrong. I am _asking_ if hating one automatically means you hate the other. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5236 "2025-06-22T15:20:21Z")
That really isn’t a good parallel, nor an answer to my post. People and movements who use phrases don’t actually own them. Uses of such a phrase that are possibly incidental have to be evaluated **in context** of other things that individual has said or written. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > Also, I’m not making an argument. Yes, I’m sorry I used that phrase. I should have said “It would help me to understand” instead. I was writing too fast. For the record, I’m still not sure I understand, but that’s not your responsibility. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am _asking_ if hating one automatically means you hate the other. And you omitted the part of that same post that answered that (for me) – “of course not.” Is it that you insist on an answer from a particular person? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5237 "2025-06-22T15:20:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am asking if hating one automatically means hating the other. Why are you asking such a stupid question that any literate person would be able to answer by reading the post you initially quoted? > [@Alessan](#): > > Personally, it makes no difference to me if someone hates me because I’m Jewish _or_ because I’m Israeli. I’m both, and I always will be. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5238 "2025-06-22T15:21:34Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > That really isn’t a good parallel, nor an answer to my post. People and movements who use phrases don’t actually own them. Uses of such a phrase that are possibly incidental have to be evaluated **in context** of other things that individual has said or written. That’s precisely how I concluded that Natureboy is an antisemite, possibly Groyper inspired. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5239 "2025-06-22T15:22:26Z")
I didn’t ask the OP, I asked @Alessan. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5240 "2025-06-22T15:27:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > That’s precisely how I concluded that Natureboy is an antisemite, possibly Groyper inspired. Good for you. I think I have made it explicit more than once that I am only challenging @crowmanyclouds’ conclusion based on the paragraph they quoted. You may ask yourself why I am picking this nit, and my answer would be that this is a very difficult area to discuss clearly, partly because of the kinds of conflation between Israel as a nation and all Jews everywhere that many people on both sides insist on doing. I have a small hope of reducing the incidence of that conflation by drawing attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5241 "2025-06-22T15:30:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I didn’t ask the OP, I asked @Alessan. What the fuck are you talking about? Where did I mention the OP? > [@Babale](#): > > Why are you asking such a stupid question that any literate person would be able to answer by reading the post you initially quoted? > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > Personally, it makes no difference to me if someone hates me because I’m Jewish _or_ because I’m Israeli. I’m both, and I always will be. _The post you initially quoted_ is @Alessan’s post, and just in case there was any confusion, I quoted it again. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5242 "2025-06-22T15:31:28Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Good for you. I think I have made it explicit more than once that I am only challenging @crowmanyclouds’ conclusion based on the paragraph they quoted. You may ask yourself why I am picking this nit, and my answer would be that this is a very difficult area to discuss clearly, partly because of the kinds of conflation between Israel as a nation and all Jews everywhere that many people on both sides insist on doing. I have a small hope of reducing the incidence of that conflation by drawing attention to it. Anyone who is familiar with the topic, or with the way that Groypers and other antisemites talk about it, does not share your confusion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=246) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=248)