# What were you THINKING? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532 "2023-10-13T19:36:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 248
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5243 "2025-06-22T15:33:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am _asking_ if hating one automatically means you hate the other. It **should** not. But they _are_ often conflated (which I suspect you already realize). Sometimes they are conflated by the person espousing the hate, because they unfairly blur the distinction. And sometimes they are conflated by those being castigated, because they are also unfairly blurring the distinction. Meaning, yes, some people hate Israel because they are anti-Semitic. And, yes, some people claim that a criticism of Israel, or an Israeli person, is anti-Semitic, even though the ire has nothing to do with their religion. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5244 "2025-06-22T15:40:55Z")
It’s certainly _logically_ possible for a person to hate “all Israelis” without hating “all Jews.” But let’s be real: in the Venn diagram of those two populations, the “hates all Israelis” circle is entirely inside the “hates all Jews” circle. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5245 "2025-06-22T15:48:13Z")
And also, the “upset with actions Israel takes” circle is largely disjoint from both of those, and includes a lot of Israelis, Jews, and Jewish Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5246 "2025-06-22T15:54:19Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > the “upset with actions Israel takes” circle is largely disjoint from both of those, and includes a lot of Israelis, Jews, and Jewish Israelis. The frustration for many in the camp, however, is when we are told that it is antisemitism that we are speaking. I’m not an antisemite. My mom was Jewish, so technically I am too (A Rabbi told me so). I’ve attended many a Seder. I’ve known hundreds of Jewish people, and had good relationships with dozens. But Israel is committing war crimes, its prime minister is a criminal, and I think the war with Iran is a reckless campaign that won’t end well. It should be easy to raise those criticisms without being suspected of bigotry. But it’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5247 "2025-06-22T16:01:48Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > The idea of Jews being God’s chosen people is an article of religious faith, just like the resurrection of Jesus. The idea of anything being an “article of religious faith” in the Christian sense is fundamentally foreign to Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5248 "2025-06-22T16:05:59Z")
I don’t have @Moriarty’s ethnic cred, but I share his attitude. When criticism of the actions of the Israeli government of the day is considered “proof positive” of anti-Semitism, something very important is lost from the debate. Lots of excluded middle going on there. And yes, there _are_ insincere bad actors whose motivations for criticising the Israeli government are rooted in ethnic hatred. I don’t hate America or all Americans. But I sure have a lot of negative things to say about the US government of the moment. If those two ideas cannot be kept separate in the minds of intellectually honest people, we’re all doomed to an endless cycle of misattributed anger and ever hotter animosity growing to unthinking hate. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5249 "2025-06-22T16:08:05Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > When criticism of the actions of the Israeli government of the day is considered “proof positive” of anti-Semitism, something very important is lost from the debate. Lots of excluded middle going on there. Sadly, the US government is taking this position, and using it as an excuse to deport people. How My Reporting on the Columbia Protests Led to My Deportation > **[How My Reporting on the Columbia Protests Led to My Deportation](https://www.newyorker.com/news/the-lede/how-my-reporting-on-the-columbia-protests-led-to-my-deportation)** > > As an Australian who wrote about the demonstrations while on campus, I gave my phone a superficial clean before flying to the U.S. I underestimated what I was up against. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5250 "2025-06-22T16:13:04Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Sadly, the US government is taking this position, and using it as an excuse to deport people. It’s the same thing when they try to conflate _patriotism_ with _support for the government_. Nothing is more nauseating than a trying to speak out against a war and being told that you must hate your country. (Why do i feel like this is all foreshadowing?) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5251 "2025-06-22T16:17:02Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > some people hate Israel because they are anti-Semitic And some people _love_ Israel because they are anti-Semitic. > **[Zionist antisemitism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_antisemitism)** > > Zionist antisemitism or antisemitic Zionism refers to a phenomenon in which antisemites express support for Zionism and the State of Israel. In some cases, this support may be promoted for explicitly antisemitic reasons. Historically, this type of antisemitism has been most notable among Christian Zionists, who may perpetrate religious antisemitism while being outspoken in their support for Jewish sovereignty in Israel due to their interpretation of Christian eschatology. Similarly, people who... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5252 "2025-06-22T16:18:08Z")
Because it is a microstep to go from “We are deporting you because you criticize Israel, which means you are anti-Jew” to “We are deporting/banishing you because you criticize the U.S. which means you are anti-American”. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5253 "2025-06-22T16:49:41Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > anti-Semite. A word that long ago lost its true meaning. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5254 "2025-06-22T16:52:58Z")
Please, tell us more! Also, would you prefer _Jew hater_? Because, as I said up-thread, you went from wanting to attack Israel directly to attacking Jews so what are we supposed to conclude? ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5255 "2025-06-22T17:01:53Z")
I think context matters - I was pretty clearly referring to Israel and supporters of Israel. I mean, yeah, it’s a Jewish state, as it was conceived and created (through violence, I would add). I can’t change facts, no matter how much you want me to. I wasn’t referring to all Jews the world over. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5256 "2025-06-22T17:05:47Z")
Remind me? Exactly who are “_God’s ‘chosen people.’_”? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5257 "2025-06-22T17:13:11Z")
When you talk about “not being able to criticize” “God’s chosen people”, I’m pretty sure you are talking about all Jews the world over. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5258 "2025-06-22T17:13:12Z")
As I said, it’s a Jewish state. That I cannot change. Did we or did we not have a US Senator in an interview this week talk about a duty to protect Israel? Because God or something? Surely he’s not the only Senator/Congressman, either. Inaccurate interpretations of Genesis aside, that’s a common justification for our defense of Israel. My posting history is short and limited but I challenge you or anyone to find a thread/post in which I insult the Jewish faith (aside from my general skepticism of all religion). I’m pretty sure any ‘antisemitism’ on my part is in the context of Israel/Zionism/AIPAC. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5259 "2025-06-22T17:14:37Z")
Antisemitism isn’t about the Jewish faith, it’s about the Jewish ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5260 "2025-06-22T17:16:03Z")
Pro tip natureboy, when you find yourself in a hole digging isn’t a sound strategy. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5261 "2025-06-22T17:16:41Z")
I’m not attacking Jewish ethnicity, either. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/5262 "2025-06-22T17:17:32Z")
Just attacking “God’s chosen people”. But not Jews, heavens, no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=247) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532.md?page=249)